End fossil fuel welfare handouts paid for by taxpayers
 

"Let's End Polluter Welfare"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-be...b_1531880.html

Yes because we all know these upright, stately dinizens of our economy will just absorb that financial hit in their shorts & their shareholders will applaud footing the bill for this.

They'll probably just say "We've gotten fat off these *tax breaks* lo these many years, and well, gosh darnit - it isn't fair to our customers anymore. So we'll just agree to make less money".

Don't think for a second that they'd ever pass it on to consumers, or better yet sell it all to China and screw us all together.

So you think it's better that you and I, the taxpayers, continue to pay to subsidize these private companies and investors?

Not out of my checkbook. But you go ahead.

If the companies screw their investors when they lose their tax breaks - well, that's just capitalism and the free market at work. Too bad for those investors. They should have attended their stockholder meetings if that's the Board they've voted in.

Right now there is no free market - these parasites are living off welfare: our government subsidies.

I may be wrong but I think his point is they will get it from your tax dollars and if they eliminate that they will get it directly from you at the pump. Just think of it like everything else Lose/Lose for us.

I'd rather end the subsidies, and see them pass it on at the pump. That is the entire point of the article. It will even out the US market and show the propped-up oil industries for what they are.

The oil industry in the US has been an untenable bloated welfare recipient for decades now. They are getting bilions and billions of dollars from us. We're broke. It's time the welfare handouts to Big Oil stopped.

For the first time, we're a net exporter of oil. Time we used that cushion to wean the dependent off government subsidies, and allow the entire energy market to flourish.

Oh - and our pollution to decrease.

and let's not leave out these Renewable Blood-suckers!

Energy Incentives for Businesses in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...209564,00.html

Well his own Energy Secretary said he didn't understand why we weren't paying 9.00 a gallon for gas like in Europe, so it stands to reason that it sits well with you too.

As a consumer, you at least have control over these subsidies as they come back directly to you - that is the whole point of them. Without it, this entire country would stop.

What do you the the gubment is going to do with your money when they aren't giving it to Big Oil? Give it back to you? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Exactly. Thanks. You've itemized the untenable, massive difference in government choosing winners (Big Oil) and losers.

Multiple billions to the oil companies and their stockholders at our expense, while the rest of the energy industry - inherently less expensive and cleaner to produce - struggles along.

We're broke. The massive subsidies propping up the record profit-taking of the oil industries must stop. Why does the number one company in profit in the country need billions in subsides? Let's end those subsidies, and use that money to pay down the deficit.

No, that's not what Chu said.

No, these subsides do not "come back to me" in cost lowering at the pump, they go into massive profit for the oil companies.

Nope. Use it to pay down our massive deficit, caused by all these free government welfare handouts to record-profitable companies that pay little to no tax.

ah... no not exactly...but nice spin.

You demonize Oil & Coal and yet neglect to mention that Renewables are highly subsidized too.

If you leveled the playing field and let the best form of energy survive - it will - and it won't be Renewables.


If you had to pay the actual cost for Renewable Energy you wouldn't turn on your plasma TV.

If you took away all of the subsidies and prohibited people from dying young of mysterious illnesses that work in renewable energy...

then we wouldn't have a problem. There wouldn't be a need for wars. And Tesla would be God.

I'm not "demonizing". I'm pointing out the fact that they are extremely profitable companies, they pay little to no tax, and they have received, and are due to receive, billions in taxpayer welfare handouts to prop their balance sheet up. They are private companies. Enough. We're broke. Stand on your own, private big oil companies, without government subsidy.

Renewables are nowhere near subsidized as Big Oil (billions over decades in the past, and billions in decades to come) has been, and is. That is the very point.

Big Oil is massively profitable, it no longer needs billions of dollars in taxpayer welfare to exist. Other alternative energy sources should have an equal chance to succeed in the marketplace, without private Big Oil getting massive subsidies and gifts of money from the government (our pockets).

I'd guess it would be natural gas. And yes - leveling the playing field is exactly what the energy industry should be about, and what this new law is attempting to do. We are broke. We have a deficit we need to fix. Let's stop the corporate welfare checks. We don't have money to prop up Big Oil private profits. Every single conservative and libertarian "against big government welfare" believer should be 100% in favor of this.

Sounds great - good luck with that.

You're logic is flawed, but you don't have the sense to notice it. While you're at it, why are Big Pharma, Big Ag, and the Medical/Insurance machine allowed to still suck off the same teet that you think you can strong arm Big Oil off of?

It's entirely too complex to just say "screw them, they'll just have to do with less".

There is global demand for their product, and they will sell it anywhere but here if it is not as profitable, if not more so, for them to do so.

You have zero leverage to in that regard. It's pretty much comparable to why junkies don't have a lot of say in what their drug of choice happens to be.

Said the man who thinks the President of the United States birth certificate is a faked conspiracy theory :D

Amazing she doesn't get this. In reality it's helps the poor, could you imagine what the half of this country that doesn't pay taxes would do if they had to pay $9 a gallon?

What's amazing is you rocket scientists think that eliminating billions in tax breaks for the big five oil companies will magically cause gasoline to go to $9 a gallon.

Do you know how gasoline is purchased for use within this country?

Apparently not.

"OMG, we can't get rid of tax breaks for Big Oil, they own us! They are holding us hostage for that money! We are victims of Big Oil extortion! We can't tell them to get off the government teat, they'll harm us! Give them more money! Give them the money! We love you, Big Oil - have some more tax breaks! You're just private companies, but you own the US government and hold us hostage to your private profit! "

Good lord. You'd think you guys who are all about small government and fix the deficit would stand up to massive private corporate bullies and their owned government Congressmen and Senators that are stealing your money. Instead of excusing the behaviour and enabling them. Let alone being afraid of them!

From what I have read we are producing more oil in this country right now than we have for a long time. There are new oil reserves being found all over the country yet we are still paying thru the teeth for gas. Something is rotten in Denmark....is it the oil speculators? Is it our own country gouging its citizens? We have oil rigs sitting out in the ocean here in Cali that we dont use and are just a shi tting spot for water foul, why? Its more than taxes and tax breaks and its way more than who is president.....we are being fleeced and the best way to tell them to go f*ck themselves is by buying electric cars and finding non fuel transportation for everyday life. When gas prices go up I know that I find ways to minimize my driving habits, I know that some dont have that option.
Oil speculators should be banned. What if there were wheat and corn speculators, would that be ok with the world?

:tro: Yes, oil speculators have alot to do with it. Oil companies in the US should have to compete on a fair market with the rest of the country's energy manufacturers, not continue to get government gifts of billions of dollars bloating their already legendary profits and eliminating them paying their taxes. Coal and oil are ridiculously out of date as fuel. Even trucking companies are going to natural gas.

Part of the auto bailout deal was requiring the car companies to hurry up with mileage improvements.

BTW, there are corn and wheat speculators (futures traders). And there are subsidies for those crops, too.

The same cast of characters who control oil also control all other sources of energy or will. That's why there is a delay. The only way to change things is through revolution and that is simply impossible in this day and age.

They won. Get used to it.

Shortly before he became President Barack Obama's energy secretary, Steven Chu declared, "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe" -- which were around $8 per gallon at the time.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73138.html

You sure about that?

Clip, don't get sucked into her vortex of idiocy.

She'll just deny the facts and/or spend 5 pages posting about how she didn't say what she clearly said.

Been there many times, usually end the debate saying something like, "logic, reason or math are not welcome in these discussions" and stop posting.

Because quoting the entire quote accurately, in context, isn't the same as what right wing websites said Chu said :tro: :D

Feel free to do so, this way everyone will know what he meant.

Nope. It's up to the people making the "quote" as part of their argument to get it right. That would be you and Rude.

Rude said Chu said, "he didn't understand why we weren't paying 9.00 a gallon for gas like in Europe".

You said, "Steven Chu declared, 'Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe'."

So Rude says the energy secretary can't understand how the market works, and you say the energy secretary wants gasoline prices to skyrocket.

If you guys want to use the man's words as part of your argument, I'd suggest you quote his words accurately and in context.

I didn't say it, I quoted it and included the link to support the quote. How exactly does what he said not imply he wants to get gas prices higher?

http://sec.online.wsj.com/article/SB...307499791.html

How about this one?

Can you quote the part where Chu "didn't understand why we weren't paying 9.00 a gallon for gas like in Europe" ?

As I said: that's not what Chu said.

Does anybody have any evidence that removing billions in taxpayer subsidies will cause the richest and most profitable corporation in the US (Exxon), and it's four biggest competitors to raise gasoline to $9 a liter? Especially when our oil is still bought and sold on the world market, and only the largest five gasoline companies, and not the smaller US ones, would be affected?

Not to mention the billions that would flow into our taxpayer pockets to pay off our deficit. Which is the whole point.

Being held hostage by private companies doesn't seem to be a very smart thing for the American taxpayer. We should stop that, no?

It was never presented as a quote, more of a summation. The quotes I have provided support that summation completely based on the cost of gasoline at the time of the WSJ interview with Chu.

Being held hostage by the federal gov't sounds better?

I would rather the gas/oil companies have that money than DC. It is more likely to find a way into the economy in the hands of a successful business.

So you are in favor of billions of dollars in taxpayer money - we're broke, remember? - going to the five most profitable oil companies, huge companies that pay zero or few taxes.

We are broke - and you want my and your tax dollars to subsidize those private profit centers with welfare dollars? :zz:

Since when is it right for the American people to pay for the profits of private companies and their shareholders?

No, that's not right in the least! BP should pay the 9.9 billion dollars it costs to clean up the gulf due to their oil spill. Not me. Not you.

http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.co...k-at-our-10-k/

They pay plenty, not too mention all the $ collected per gallon by the federal government. I know your agenda is for no one to profit and the world to be covered with roses and nobody has to actually DO anything to get the things they need/want but that isn't reality. Exxon operates at about 10% profit, the fact that they move a lot of product makes their profit large. What about the matching funds they pay for their employees?

If you end subsidies for them you need to end them for everyone, this I am in favor of. EVERYONE, private citizens, private companies and public companies. All pay the same "fair share".

No. That's the opposite of what I want. I want the United States to be fair chance for everybody - not just the wealthiest corporations that own Congress and live off the taxpayers dime. I want the taxpayers to regain control of their government. I want each taxpayer to have the same opportunity to work hard and succeed in this country - something I've seen taken away over the past several decades. I want people to be able to work hard and become as wealthy as they wish due to their hard work.

Right now, I see the wealthy living off the poor, and the biggest companies squandering the chance of any little company to have a start-up due to favorable laws they purchase in their favor, and corporations owning our political process start to finish. I see the taxpayer no longer having any voice in Washington as they don't contribute big bucks, and now they no longer have a voice in electing their representatives due to Citizens United.

We live in a plutocracy. Not a democracy. And I want our democracy back.

I could go for that. But we have to start somewhere. Do you agree with starting with the Big Five massively profitable oil companies, or not?

I will start at the top and work my way down.

The United States is offering a fair chance for everybody, right from the start, same odds. Make of them what you will. That is how poor people become wealthy and community organizers born to single parents become President, beating the odds.

The only way taxpayers can regain control of the government at this point is revolution and no one really has the energy or capability to do so, the next best thing is voting, few do that with any kind of information. Status quo after status quo. Single term limits for all, this was never meant to be a career, it was meant to be a service and an honorable one at that.

The wealthy support the poor, not the other way around, where does all that money given to the poor come from? Other poor?
Small companies start up all the time and are able to thrive, society has turned a bit on that and are looking for a service first mentality, not just the lowest price the large company can provide me with. I have two companies, both started in the last 6 years and doing quite well against all odds.

I actually agree about corporations owning the government, all branches, both parties. DC is a pit and needs to be torn down in lieu of a do over. Start from scratch, see if they can find some document written in plain English to use as a framework amongst the rubble. One that doesn't require so much "interpretation".

The taxpayer (collective) pays more than any corporation and is meant to own the government as a result. Not Citizens United or Hollywood big shots paying 14MM to have dinner with the President or any one interest. Agreed but it has to work both ways. See?

We live in a Constitutional Republic, never has been a Democracy. Elections used to be, sort of, until the electoral system. The only thing separating us from a Kingdom is we elect our inept leaders and then are stuck with them, often more than once as the % of educated voters goes down every year.

To answer your question, no I do not agree with starting anywhere. It must be broad spectrum, rip it off like a Band-Aid for ALL because there is no "starting with" they would get it done and maintain the rest of the untenable subsidies until they spent (read wasted) that money and go looking for another villain to rob.

Stop it, from what your voluminous run-on political posts, it is obvious that you don't want people to have the chance to work hard and get wealthy. What you really want a communist society where the wealth is spread equally, the incentive to work hard and make something of yourself is taken away, and the limits of what you can do is controlled by government. You want the so called rich to pay usurious tax rates which take away the incentive for people to work hard, make money, create jobs and stimulate the economy. Instead, you want anyone who tries to make money to pay a penalty to those that sit on their a$$ waiting for the government to take care of them.

The hypocrite you are makes your nonsensical rants on the computers and technology made by those big corporations that you despise. Funny that people from all over the world are still rushing to come to this "plutocracy" that you claim it is to have the opportunity to have no limits on what wealth can come to them with hard work and the opportunities that this country presents. Thank god your philosophies will be going in history on par with Jimmy Carter come the end of the year.

No. Income for people making less than $250,000 a year - that is over 95% of Americans - has stagnated or gone down over the past 50 years. Meanwhile, the wealthiest Americans have gotten more income, and more tax breaks.

I agree with you there. Not enough vote, and few actually vote for the person or party whose interests aline with their own.

I disagree with term limits. I want someone to be accountable to voters, not free to do exactly as they wish in office.

The wealthy do not support the poor, the middle three income brackets support the poor.

Only 1 in 5 small businesses are still in business after 5 years.

I am on my second good business, too. But I'm a professional, with a good education. I don't manufacture, I sell my knowledge and skill. The most people I have hired at one time is 6 or 7. Now - we all live in the same community, so money earned here, is spent here, locally. And that's a good thing, certainly

I laugh at what happened to the Facebook IPO - it sorta shows that you can't sell imaginary value. We should go back to manufacturing - those tangible things ;)

I absolutely agree with you that it is virtually all people, both parties. There are a few "clean" people in Congress, but I'll bet I could only come up with less than 20 or so.

I absolutely agree that big money should not buy government. But no money should buy government. All American citizens own the government, not just "taxpayers".

We don't elect, the candidate with the most money wins.

I disagree. That would collapse our economy. We have to start somewhere, bit by bit.

Having a bad day, little angry man? Want a little cheese with your self-rightous "I hate you!" whine? :D Don't lie about "what I think", you stupid little bigot. How dare you lecture me on "what I think". Keep your assumptions and hate to yourself. I'm not interested in your nasty little attacks on your imaginary enemies. Feel free to be an ignorant douche, but stop trying to rub it off on me. Ewww. You're nasty. You may think you're entitled to have a childish little name-calling hissy fit, and everyone has to stop and cowtow to you. Go off in the corner, loser. Nobody cares about your self-rightous little narcissistic tantrum.

I am the angry person? Once again you are the first to throw arrows and call names. I am sorry that you constantly make a fool of yourself and I am just one of many that feel the need to point that out.

Carry on with your nonsensical hypocritical BS, I don't have time to waste on you at the moment, I am trying to earn the money you want the government to take from me and so it can waste it.

LOL. Uh, no, little "hypocrite you are". Go away, little angry person. Stop lying about "what I think" and trying to color me with your hate and bigotry, accusing me of being a communist, etc.

ROFMAO.

You're a joke. Right?

Do you really think you look smart doing this?

I do appreciate you proving my points every time I try to debate you. Now go ahead and fallaciously argue with anyone who disagrees with you like the omniscient fool that you consistently prove to be. I will take RBE's sound advice and not get sucked into your votex of idiocy.

:tro: