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Riot 11-15-2011 01:12 PM

OWS Zucotti Park
 
So the police swept in at 1:00am, confiscating and destroying thousands of dollars personal property (sweeping it into dumpsters), physically keeping the press out (illegal), arresting many (including a NYC councilman) who were preacefully assembled legally in the park.

CBS and NBC helicopters tried to film from the sky, but the police cleared the airspace over the park and refused them. The press from ABC, CBS, Reuters, etc. were DENIED ACCESS (overtly illegal, even according to NYC press rules).

One press person had their press badge ripped away and confiscated by a cop who had their badge covered and refused to identify himself. One reporter was arrested and beaten in the head as he tried to report.

There were four live U-Stream protester videos from inside and outside the park, however, and these were televised live by Al Jazeera and Russian Television (RT) overnight, as they played live on the streams. Twitter and UStream chats exploded.

A temporary restraining order was issued by a judge today at 6:00am, telling the police and Mayor Bloomberg they could NOT do that, to cease immediately and allow the protesters and tents to remain (although they were already gone, destroyed by the police).

The police have ringed the park and prevented the protesters from returning, in direct overt violation of the temporary restraining order.

Meanwhile Bloomberg is frantically searching for another judge, to give him the answer he'd rather hear, before the court hearing today.

This is completely disgusting, to be happening in this country. "Freedom" doesn't just apply to what you agree with. Power cannot be used to ignore the judicial system that protects our citizens.

Riot 11-15-2011 04:54 PM

Park is now re-Occupied !
 
Livestream here:

http://www.ustream.tv/theother99#utm...medium=9488285

http://occupystreams.org/item/occupy...bal-revolution


Rudeboyelvis 11-15-2011 06:32 PM

Someone really ought to let the NYPD know that wearing riot gear to evict unarmed grad students from their tents really make them come across as pussies.



Danzig 11-15-2011 08:45 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45299622/ns/us_news-life/

Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan was filled, but demonstrators were not allowed to bring tents, tarps, generators and camping equipment, WNBC reported.

"Small backpacks are allowed," an NYPD chief bellowed through a bullhorn as demonstrators filed back into the plaza after a New York judge upheld the city's dismantling of the encampment.

Protesters' First Amendment rights don't entitle them to camp out indefinitely in the plaza, ruled New York City Supreme Court Justice Michael Stallman as he denied a motion by demonstrators seeking to re-establish their camp. (Read his ruling here.)

"Even protected speech is not equally permissible in all places and at all times," Stallman ruled.

Police cleared out protesters in a nighttime sweep early Tuesday. The judge upheld the city's effective eviction of the protesters after an emergency appeal by the National Lawyers Guild.

The protesters had been camped out in privately owned Zuccotti Park since mid-September. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he ordered the sweep because health and safety conditions had become "intolerable" in the crowded plaza.





Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said around 200 were arrested overnight, including dozens who tried to resist by linking arms at the center of Zuccotti Park or chaining themselves together with bicycle locks.

NBC New York's Jonathan Dienst, who was at the scene in Lower Manhattan, reported that he had counted a further 40 arrests along Broadway.

A few protesters, who appeared to resist and shove officers, were thrown to the ground and placed in handcuffs, he reported.





After the raid, thousands of dollars worth of computer and camera equipment, tents and sleeping bags could be seen piled in the center of the park by sanitation workers. Police said in a statement that the items would be brought to a sanitation garage where they could be collected later.

Riot 11-15-2011 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 817912)
A park rule prohibits people from camping out overnight. This fact was either conveniently or ignorantly -- hard to tell here -- omitted in this thread.

Or you're either ignorantly or conveniently - hard to tell with you - bringing up something settled from 40 days ago. Which is it?

The park is "private", but is open, by contract with the city (it's a tradeoff park, a builder got an extra high building for creating the park) 24 hours. Being in the park is legal 24 hours.

Quote:

The rule should have been enforced from the beginning.
But it was not. In fact, early on, Bloomberg said he supported the protesters. Bloomberg said camping is fine. Until, you know, at 1:00am this morning, it was not.

In fact, today they posted new signs outside Zucotti Park, that the park closes at 10:00pm. Surrounded by police and barriers right now. No tents permitted, no lying down, etc.

Yet the Mayor has announced that protesters may occupy the park 24 hours a day. They are there right now. The library is back. There is food delivered.

You see, the law and the Constitution doesn't apply to Mayor Bloomberg. He only gets to apply it at his discretion.

Like when multiple press people are illegally prevented from observing Mayor Bloombergs' "legal" attack on the protesters at 1:00am, and press people are arrested illegally for being present while working.

Quote:

I walked around the park a few weeks ago. There were more people walking around the square than were in it, from what I could tell.

And when the miscreants left the park to protest, they never obtained a permit. Again, this should have been enforced from the beginning.

Intellectually and asthetically, the "movement" was a farce and a disgrace.
Yet it has grown, with several thousand down there tonight. Thank you, Mayor Bloomberg. A lawyer gave you a restraining order today at 6:00am, you ignored it, then you shopped judges until you found another one to overturn it around noon. The original complaint still stands - see you in court. And Zucotti Park is occupied 24 hours a day, still.

Riot 11-15-2011 09:43 PM

Press illegally arrested or prevented from working at OWS
 
The Observer’s Hunter Walker: “NYPD is blocking press and others from immediate vicinity of Liberty Plaza” he reports. “Here with credentialed photogs from NYT, WSJ and Reuters they’re also being barred from #occupywallstreet.”

Ben Doerenberg: Over the next 12 hours, both independent and mainstream journalists were prevented from covering the story, and 8 credentialed journalists (including AP, NPR, NY Daily News) were arrested.

New York Observer Politics Reporter Hunter Walker: I was blocked from viewing nypd raid at #occupywallstreet along with reporters from cnbc, nbc, cbs, wsj and reuters

NPR Freelancer Julie Walker and NY Times blog The Local reporter Jared Malsin were arrested by the NYPD, along with an unknown AFP photographer: Am still reporting on #OWS for NPR since being released from jail following my arrest.

Update 1:21pm --- 5 more credentialed journalists arrested, 2 from the Associated Press, 2 from DNAinfo,.com and 1 from the New York Daily News

AP Assistant Bureau Chief Chad Roedemeier: AP reporter Karen Matthews and AP photographer Seth Wenig were arrested by #NYPD while covering #Occupy protests.

New York Daily News: Our reporter Matthew Lysiak says that he has been arrested at the 6th Avenue park bit.ly/vl2NpO

Even Murdoch's NY Post reporters: New York Times Reporter Brian Stelter: I'm w/ a NY Post reporter who says he was roughed up by riot police as Zuccotti was cleared. He thinks violence was "completely deliberate." brianstelter 9 hours ago ReplyRetweet Per @LindseyChrist, riot police didn't distinguish between media & protesters. "They took a Post reporter and threw him in a choke hold."

Just as the raid began, the CBS helicopter that was filming Zuccotti Park was ordered to vacate the airspace by the NYPD, as confirmed by Reuters Social Media editor Anthony De Rosa "I just spoke with the CBS News desk and they were told to leave the airspace above Zuccotti Park by NYPD

The NYPD also attempted to prevent media from seeing what was going on from outside the park:

Gothamist reporter Christopher Robbins:".@Newyorkist myself, @_rosiegray @JulieShapiro and NYT's Rob Harris were all forcefully removed from park, past Cortland & Broadway

Christopher Robbins 9 hours ago ReplyRetweet: Ryan Devereaux of Democracy Now, contributor to The Guardian, The Nation and others: “Police parked two NYPD busses in front of press cage, engines running, blocking shots of square. Yelling at media trying to work. #ows

Ryan Devereaux 12 hours ago ReplyRetweet “Police are now pushing the press off the block. They just took the press pass off ab NBC news anchor. #OWS

Ryan Devereaux 13 hours ago ReplyRetweet: NYPD inspector who took press badge from NBC4's @glorioso4ny and refused to give name http://twitpic.com/...

Newyorkist 12 hours ago ReplyRetweet Columbia Journalism student and reporter Andrew Katz confirmed that even the Associated Press was kept out: “Walking with an @AP videographer to try and get a better view. NYPD wouldn't tell us why press is being penned #OWS

Andrew Katz 12 hours ago: ReplyRetweet: "Even after the park was cleared, the NYPD continued to prevent press from covering events on public streets: “We are being stopped by police from going further South on Broadway along with a credentialed Japanese TV crew. -NewYorkObserver"

More from the Observer: Speaking of reporters, the New York Daily News has been trying to keep tabs on which ones have been detained by police: “AP writer Karen Matthews was taken into custody; also AP photographer Seth Wenig and Daily News reporter Matthew Lysiak,” were all noted as having been arrested by the Daily News.

DNAInfo.com Managing Editor Michael Ventura confirmed with The NY Observer that their reporter Patrick Hedlund was arrested at 4:30 A.M. this morning while covering the OWS protests on the perimeter of Zuccotti Park.

A freelance photographer working for the online publication was also arrested. Paul Lomax was arrested at Duarte Square on Canal and Sixth Avenue later in the day as protesters were moving towards the area. Both Mr. Hedlund and Mr. Lomax were wearing NYPD-issued press credentials at the time of the arrest, according to a Mr. Ventura. Hedlund has already been released and received a Desk Appearance Ticket, he added.

Brian Stelter of NY Times 3:00 p.m. | Updated As New York City police cleared the Occupy Wall Street campsite in Zuccotti Park early Tuesday morning, many journalists were blocked from observing and interviewing protesters. Some called it a “media blackout” and said in interviews that they believed that the police efforts were a deliberate attempt to tamp down coverage of the operation.

As the police approached the park they did not distinguish between protesters and members of the press, said Lindsey Christ, a reporter for NY1, a local cable news channel. “Those 20 minutes were some of the scariest of my life,” she said.

Ms. Christ said that police officers took a New York Post reporter standing near her and “threw him in a choke-hold.”

Later in the morning, even when there were media reports that Zuccotti Park was reopening, reporters had a hard time getting access to the area. Debra Alfarone, a reporter at WPIX, the CW affiliate in New York City, wrote on Twitter around 8:45 a.m., “And we got kicked out of #zuccottipark again.”

At midday, as protesters tried to claim a vacant lot owned by a church, a confrontation ensued and at least four journalists were led away in plastic handcuffs. The City Room blog of The New York Times said that the journalists included a reporter and a photographer from The Associated Press, a reporter from The Daily News and a photographer from DNAInfo.

From the Gothamist:

During our coverage of the eviction of the Occupy Wall Street protesters early this morning, a NPR reporter, a New York Times reporter, and a city councilmember were arrested. Airspace in Lower Manhattan was closed to CBS and NBC news choppers by the NYPD, a New York Post reporter was allegedly put in a "choke hold" by the police, a NBC reporter's press pass was confiscated and a large group of reporters and protesters were hit with pepper spray. According to the eviction notice, the park was merely "cleaned and restored for its intended use." If this is the case, why were so few people permitted to view it?

NY Daily News:

3:52 PMRoque Planas: In addition to the four reporters whose arrests we blogged about earlier today, The Guardian notes the arrests of another three journalists -- news editor for DNAinfo.com Patrick Hedlund, freelance photographer for DNAinfo.com Paul Lomax and freelance reporter Jared Malsin.

3:50 PMKaren ZraickThe Deadline Club of NY has issued a statement on arrests of journalists: "The Deadline Club condemns the actions of the New York Police Department in detaining journalists who were covering the Occupy Wall Street protests today. As the New York City chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists, the Deadline Club believes that a free press is a cornerstone of our democracy and opposes any police interference with journalists in the lawful pursuance of their reporting. We urge that any journalists who are in custody be released and that any charges against the journalists detained today be dropped immediately."

1:55 PMRoque Planas: Police arrested writer Karen Matthews and photographer Seth Wenig of the Associated Press while the two were covering the confrontation between police and OWS protesters today, the AP reported. Along with National Public Radio freelance reporter Julie Walker (who has been released) and the Daily News' own Matthew Lysiak, that makes at least four journalists arrested while covering the OWS eviction and ensuring protests today.

Follow the literal trashing of the library at this twitter feed.

Tech Herald secondary reporting:

, if a surprise eviction on the pretense of sanitation and random police violence wasn’t bad enough, the NYPD showed a disturbing lack of judgment when they attempted to shutdown press coverage of the raid, implementing a media blackout by threatening arrest.

It started with a news helicopter being forced to land after the airspace over the park was ordered closed off. Soon after, reports started to come in on Twitter form those on the ground that accredited media, with clearly marked credentials, were being forced to leave the area.

Reporters from the Wall Street Journal, CNBC, NBC, CBS, Reuters, and the New York Observer, were all subjected to the media blackout. According to reports, a handful of journalists were moved far away from the park, but in some cases others were stripped of their media passes and told to leave or be arrested.

As of 03:00 EST, at least two journalists were arrested, and two others from the New York Times left the park in order to avoid arrest. One journalist from NPR was clearly wearing her credentials as police took her away. At last count, 106 people were arrested during the raid.

“Cops at #OWS keep confiscating press passes, then arresting press with and without passes. Illegal and stupid,” said one report posted on Twitter.

Matt Cowgill, commenting from Australia, summed up the mood of many journalists watching the reports on Twitter, in addition to live video from the protesters themselves with, “I don't see how ejecting accredited journalists from a public place is defensible in a democracy.”

At 05:00 EST, CNN was running coverage, using video feeds provided by the protesters, reporters on cell phones, and comments from Twitter. But the real coverage will start later this morning, as Occupy protesters return in force, and Mayor Bloomberg answers hard questions.

dellinger63 11-16-2011 09:53 AM

Overnight camping in NYC parks in fact 99% of the country's city parks is illegal. This is the result of 'looking the other way'.

Comical in the fact protesters are all about coveting other's possessions but when theirs are touched? :mad:

Hint to Protesters: Go find a nice State Park where overnight camping is available, for a fee of course, and ponder how people like Oprah, Michael Moore and Steve Jobs became 1 percenters in a fixed system. Then grow up!

hoovesupsideyourhead 11-16-2011 11:39 AM

where s the peoples champion obama to rescue them..90 perc of these folks voted for change..they got it..and how are these protesters who are complaining about no jobs out looking for work when they are 'protesting'.

jms62 11-16-2011 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead (Post 817997)
where s the peoples champion obama to rescue them..90 perc of these folks voted for change..they got it..and how are these protesters who are complaining about no jobs out looking for work when they are 'protesting'.

Probably the same way I am betting on Churchill Downs today without actually going to the track.

dellinger63 11-16-2011 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 817999)
Probably the same way I am betting on Churchill Downs today without actually going to the track.

Hopefully without the scabies, lice and lung ailments

jms62 11-16-2011 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63 (Post 818000)
Hopefully without the scabies, lice and lung ailments

I confirm I have none of them

Antitrust32 11-16-2011 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead (Post 817997)
where s the peoples champion obama to rescue them..90 perc of these folks voted for change..they got it..and how are these protesters who are complaining about no jobs out looking for work when they are 'protesting'.


yeah, how dare American citizens protest wonderful champions of humanity like the government and Wall Street, who we all know have the best interests for the American people at heart.

I doubt the 90% thing is even close to true. Many Republicans, Libertarians and Tea Party members are part of Occupy Wall Street.

Antitrust32 11-16-2011 12:55 PM

my cousin, an 18 year old freshman at UNC Charlotte, started Occupy UNCC. Our entire family is extremely proud and supportive of him and his cause. and you wont find one liberal in this family. When will people realize this has NOTHING to do with partisan politics.

http://nineronline.com/2011/occupy-u...begin-protest/

Antitrust32 11-16-2011 01:38 PM

"Whose responsibility is all this? It's ours. We must take responsibility. I never made a shady loan, created a mortgage-backed security, or used loopholes to keep from paying my taxes. But the people who created this situation did it right before our eyes. They did it because we, the people, didn't scrutinize them, didn't hold them accountable. It was too complex. It was too much to try and learn. It was way over there in D.C. and Wall Street and had nothing to do with our day-to-day lives.

We are guilty of distractibility, of laziness in our democracy. And while we were all sleeping, a few clever individuals rigged the entire system to siphon money in a hundred ways, some blatant and some covert, from our bank accounts, pensions, 401(k) accounts, and taxes. They said they were "too big to fail," threatened us with economic ruin and made off with billions.

So now, across the country and across the globe, regular people are standing up and taking responsibility. They're saying, "We are not going to let these crooks get away with this. Not on our watch. Never again." The Occupation Movement isn't some left-wing, fringe organization. It isn't a bunch of anarchists hoping to wreak havoc or anti-capitalist protesters hoping to create some utopian state. It is comprised of people just like you and me, willing to take responsibility, take our leaders to task, and make those not doing their part to ensure the prosperity of all either pitch in or pack up.



Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...#ixzz1dtnJ7PXY

Antitrust32 11-16-2011 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 818021)
Rubbish.

i respecfully disagree that the Occupy movement is a left wing movement. I do think it is categorized as one by some media, but I personally know as many or more conservatives who support it than liberals.

people of all political backgrounds should be pissed about how Wall Street has bought out the goverment.

Danzig 11-16-2011 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 818027)
i respecfully disagree that the Occupy movement is a left wing movement. I do think it is categorized as one by some media, but I personally know as many or more conservatives who support it than liberals.

people of all political backgrounds should be pissed about how Wall Street has bought out the goverment.

is that wall streets fault, or the govts?

Rudeboyelvis 11-16-2011 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 818027)
i respecfully disagree that the Occupy movement is a left wing movement. I do think it is categorized as one by some media, but I personally know as many or more conservatives who support it than liberals.

people of all political backgrounds should be pissed about how Wall Street has bought out the goverment.

I don't believe for a moment that this movement is "left wing" or inherently "liberally bias" either. Regardless of what Fox News wants to cram down their drone's throats.

The main ideals were pointed out very poignantly in a previous post (#17).


Unfortunately most of the responsible supporters of the movement can't afford to lay around in a park all day and all night with no agenda and no end in sight. It would be refreshing to see some organization, a unified message, and some castigation for the fringe anti-capitalist, dirtheads and hangers on that have attached themselves to this for their own personal reasons (like so they can sit around in a drum circle and smoke dope all day) and in turn have not only drawn negative attention to OWS, but have drawn attention away from the original message.

Rudeboyelvis 11-16-2011 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 818031)
is that wall streets fault, or the govts?

Neither - it is the Electorate's fault for laying complacent and allowing criminals to infiltrate Wall St. and the Gov't without reproach.

Riot 11-16-2011 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 818013)
Also, for the Riots (read: uninformed) of the world: unless people were standing shoulder-to-shoulder and back-to-back (literally) in Zuccotti Park, you could not fit "several thousand" in that park.

I know. I have walked past that park for years. I have walked through that park. I was there a few weeks ago.

Brevity with knowledge beats long-windedness with ignorace.

Are you a joke? What I said was that yes, yesterday afternoon, when the park was re-opened, yes, there were estimates of two to three thousand people there. From the people actually there: police, news, feeds from the ground.

Feel free to continue to call them false. After all, you walked by the park a few weeks ago, so you are an expert on what happened when the park re-opened yesterday around 5:00pm.

Riot 11-16-2011 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63 (Post 817964)
Overnight camping in NYC parks in fact 99% of the country's city parks is illegal. This is the result of 'looking the other way'.

Comical in the fact protesters are all about coveting other's possessions but when theirs are touched? :mad:

Hint to Dell: Zuccotti is not a NYC park. It is a private park, whose use has been deeded to the city via contract. It has different rules than the NYC parks.

Why do you falsely characterize the protesters as being "all about coveting other's possessions"?

Your factual ignorance about this protest, which has roots in 200 cities internationally, is simply astounding.

Riot 11-16-2011 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 818011)
Being in the park around the clock is legal, but camping out in it is NOT legal. That is referenced by the term "camping out".

Actually, no, the judge just ruled camping out illegal yesterday in the overturning of the temporary restraining order. There was no reference to camping before that in this type of park, only the NYC owned parks. That's why there was alot of confusion in the first forty days, and why Bloomberg allowed it.

Until, at 1:00am with only 10 minutes warning, he sent in his stormtroopers to illegal seize citizens property, and arrest them for exercising their constitutional rights.

Riot 11-16-2011 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 818008)
yeah, how dare American citizens protest wonderful champions of humanity like the government and Wall Street, who we all know have the best interests for the American people at heart.

I doubt the 90% thing is even close to true. Many Republicans, Libertarians and Tea Party members are part of Occupy Wall Street.

True. Most of the protesters are employed, many are not just "students" or the young. Many are at the various Occupy protests while they are on vacation days.

The Occupy movement is primarily protesting the ownership of this government by monied corporate interests, to the detriment of the vast majority of it's citizens.

That people are defending that shows how effective their propaganda machine has been over the past 40 years.

Riot 11-16-2011 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32 (Post 818010)
my cousin, an 18 year old freshman at UNC Charlotte, started Occupy UNCC. Our entire family is extremely proud and supportive of him and his cause. and you wont find one liberal in this family. When will people realize this has NOTHING to do with partisan politics.

http://nineronline.com/2011/occupy-u...begin-protest/

Good for him! :tro:

Riot 11-16-2011 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 818031)
is that wall streets fault, or the govts?

It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.

Danzig 11-16-2011 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis (Post 818036)
Neither - it is the Electorate's fault for laying complacent and allowing criminals to infiltrate Wall St. and the Gov't without reproach.

i disagree.
the buyer is wrong, but i would think the seller would be more so. but i am neither, how am i at fault? all i'm asking is, how can you blame wall street? you can't buy what someone else isn't selling. the govt is supposed to do what's best, not what's purchased. if they have no honor, they need to go. they're supposed to be the ones who make laws to prevent things such as the whole banking scandal. instead, congress voted to get rid of regulations to prevent what happened after-and now we know why. if you're bought, you know immediately you're corrupt. it's not something voters find out about right away. now we know, so hopefully now there will be action.
lol yeah, right.
just like congress was going to become more ethical. the fox is watching the henhouse in that regard.

Danzig 11-16-2011 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 818049)
It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.


this is one of the reasons i advocate term limits. people can't become entrenched and send pork back for their constituents to get fat on, if they can't stay long enough to become 'too big to fail'.
as for cain, he's not a current officeholder, not sure what you mentioned him for. it's the decades-long senators and representatives who have figured out how to work the system.

Clip-Clop 11-16-2011 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 818049)
It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.

Sure they will, in the end it will just come cheaper.

Riot 11-16-2011 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 818056)
as for cain, he's not a current officeholder, not sure what you mentioned him for. .

Because he is a self-described, "Koch brotha by another motha". He and his campaign chief Block have long worked for the Koch brothers and their PAC. Everyone knows this - Cain even BRAGS about it, see above quote - Cain has run for Senator and President before. Who is keeping his campaign financed? Look at his campaign finance documents. Before Cain worked for the Koch brothers, he was (famously) lobbyist for the National Restaurant Association.

Cain is a wholly-owned corporate candidate. He is currently owned by the Koch brothers. And they are not even shy about saying that. Yet there are tons of American voters out there who mistakenly think Cain is some kind of magical "independent businessman" with no ties to Washington? Good grief, Cain himself brags on his Koch connection! He is proud of it!

Cain is what OWS is all about.

DaTruth 11-16-2011 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 818049)
Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

Any effect that it will have is to hurt moderate Democrats in toss-up districts and states.

Riot 11-16-2011 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaTruth (Post 818067)
Any effect that it will have is to hurt moderate Democrats in toss-up districts and states.

How?

I will say that "moderate Dems" today (not blue dogs) is exactly what a Republican was 20 years ago :D Our Democratic party is very conservative, compared to the rest of first world countries.

The Democratic party has more politicians aligned with OWS values than the Republicans (zero) but half the Dems are corporate owned puppets, too.

OWS isn't going to go to candidates and endorse them. OWS is about values, morality and ethics in government, getting the American government back into the hands of the citizens, and getting corporate ownership out.

Candidates - like Elizabeth Warren - that support OWS type values will win overwhelmingly. She's already drawing legendary crowd numbers to support her candidacy.

The Republican party seems to be currently imploding with extremism and corporate ownership. Walker (Wisconsin), Kasich (Ohio) and Scott (Florida) are the most disliked governors in the country. All swing states that will affect the downticket candidates. Kasich just had his signature union-busting legislation repealed, his voter ID blocking is up for repeal now, too; Walker is currently under a recall attempt with multiple other Republicans in government in Wisconsin. Florida can't recall Scott, but they have major buyers regret. He's the least liked governor in the country.

Thus the Occupy movement, I think, will NOT hurt those moderate Dems, but help them, as they are so contrasted with the extremes the Republicans have become. So many people have left the current Republican party to call themselves "Independents", because they don't want to be associated with the John Birch Society/Republicans, I think those will embrace those "moderate Dems" (who are actually a more typical Republican).

There are only 25-28% of people that strongly self-identify as "Republican" with the current party. I think all the ex-Republicans will become the new "moderate Dems" and "independents" and there will emerge a smaller (25-30%) new and very progressive wing of the Democratic party (more Occupy). The current Republican party will be relegated to third party status.

Your thoughts?

Riot 11-16-2011 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 818077)
Can you provide a link detailing when the dimensions of the park changed? I have walked around, through, and passed it for years, and it always appeared to be the same size.

Perhaps the industrious miscreants increased the size of the park in the few weeks since I last visited it -- on more than once occasion -- and yesterday.

That crowd always struck me as the "doers" of society.

Why don't you simply pay attention to the news stories, the live images, the pictures?

News story on the eviction and the reopening, with lots of video, Richard Engle on the ground at Zucotti park last night as it was reopening: http://abcnews.go.com/US/Economy/occ...ry?id=14955681

Below, around 7pm, Zucotti park after it was reopened yesterday (barricaded by the PD, two openings for entrance,exit with police inspection, park surrounded by police barricades, entire park filled and people filled sidewalks surrounding park)



Protesters waiting to be readmitted to park

DaTruth 11-16-2011 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 818068)
How?

I will say that "moderate Dems" today (not blue dogs) is exactly what a Republican was 20 years ago :D Our Democratic party is very conservative, compared to the rest of first world countries.

The Democratic party has more politicians aligned with OWS values than the Republicans (zero) but half the Dems are corporate owned puppets, too.

OWS isn't going to go to candidates and endorse them. OWS is about values, morality and ethics in government, getting the American government back into the hands of the citizens, and getting corporate ownership out.

Candidates - like Elizabeth Warren - that support OWS type values will win overwhelmingly. She's already drawing legendary crowd numbers to support her candidacy.

The Republican party seems to be currently imploding with extremism and corporate ownership. Walker (Wisconsin), Kasich (Ohio) and Scott (Florida) are the most disliked governors in the country. All swing states that will affect the downticket candidates. Kasich just had his signature union-busting legislation repealed, his voter ID blocking is up for repeal now, too; Walker is currently under a recall attempt with multiple other Republicans in government in Wisconsin. Florida can't recall Scott, but they have major buyers regret. He's the least liked governor in the country.

Thus the Occupy movement, I think, will NOT hurt those moderate Dems, but help them, as they are so contrasted with the extremes the Republicans have become. So many people have left the current Republican party to call themselves "Independents", because they don't want to be associated with the John Birch Society/Republicans, I think those will embrace those "moderate Dems" (who are actually a more typical Republican).

There are only 25-28% of people that strongly self-identify as "Republican" with the current party. I think all the ex-Republicans will become the new "moderate Dems" and "independents" and there will emerge a smaller (25-30%) new and very progressive wing of the Democratic party (more Occupy). The current Republican party will be relegated to third party status.

Your thoughts?

OWS is not presenting a coherent message, and I suppose that is part of its charm to participants who feel they have an equal say in where OWS goes from here. But no organization can survive without any sort of hierarchy. Orders from the the generals at the top eventually make their way to the foot soldiers.

If OWS is a sustainable NATIONAL political movement, then you will see like-minded Democratic candidates in swing states embrace it next summer. Otherwise, it is going to be relegated to having influence in liberal districts and states. Remember, what plays in New York does not necessarily play in Little Rock. If OWS is viewed as a movement hijacked by liberal extremists, then don't count on independents siding with them over the Republicans.

Riot 11-16-2011 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 818079)
Bloomberg allowed it because he is a liberal whose girlfriend is on the park's ownership's board.

Then what was his excuse for sending in storm troopers at 1:00am yesterday?

Quote:

How many times have YOU walked around Zuccotti Park?
None. I know very well the dimensions of the park, having watched multiple live feeds, including overheads, over the past six weeks. Yeah, it's very small. When multiple news feeds show and say there are two to three thousand people there when it opened yesterday at 5:00pm, and yeah, it sure looks like that - I believe it.

You are free to continue deny that's physically possible. :D :zz:

Quote:

(And why could you not take the time to spell it correctly in your thread title?)
Well, I think that disallows anything I say about it, certainly! :D


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