Belmont the Fall Championship Meet
 

the track where champions are crowned

Wrong as usual my boy. That nickname is left over from the days before the Breeders Cup, when you were still wearing diapers and watching the Smurfs on tv.
In the old days the grade ones run at Belmont were the key decisive races that decided championships. Those days are gone. Champs are decided in most part on the basis of BC day. Doesnt really matter if you win the Champagne or JCGC or Turf Classic if you don't run well on Cup day.
They still call it that because it was called that for years. But the majority of champs will be crowned at CD on BC day. Thats just the way it is in this era of the BC.

You are so correct and this is one reason why I hate the Breeders Cup. Granted I get to see great racing, but I think there is too much emphasis on racing on that day.

i know its an inside joke stupid, we talked about this like 3-4 years ago

I completely agree and I think its a real negative. People wonder why we see 4 and 5 horse grade one fields these days and this is why. In the old days championships were truly won based on a years performances. Voters weighed the ENTIRE campaigns of the horses. This is no longer so and its wrong. The whole thing is havily weighed on BC performances as if the other races didn't count. You now actually have guys using 500 grand or 750 grand grade one races as PREPS!! LOL!!! And of course now we never get those great rivalry matchups we used to get. Nor will we ever again. Guys just play keep away all year because its the only smart thing to do. Why rough up your horse in July or August when noone is gonna vote you anything unless you win the Cup. The whole year is just plotted for that one day, and its done racing far more harm than good. We basically traded great races and matchups all year long for one orgy or greatness on one day. Yeah, that day is great, but what about the rest of the year when the grade ones are no longer what they used to be?

I agree with most of what Oracle says although the problem isn't in the Breeders Cup races themselves; its in the perception of those who vote for the Eclipse Awards. While the BC races should be a factor, they should not be the end-all for year end voting, IMO.

We basically traded great races and matchups all year long for one orgy or greatness on one day. This is the funniest thing I have ever read. I remember when the Donn was a major race trainers pointed to. Now we dont even get to see the older horses until May/June. And like you said, they use a Grade I race as a prep for the Breeders Cup. It is ridiculous if you ask me. I cant blame the trainers at all, but it doesnt make me happy.

Amen brother.

Agreed. Its not the trainers fault that they have to pander to a largely unedcuated crowd.
Each year Watchmaker or Crist does a piece on the eclipse voting and lists some horses that people actually vote for. Its hysterical. You just can't believe what some of these guys do.
If you wanna restore the rest of the year, you 'd need a total overhaul in the way these awards are decided. Many of the voters obviously don't pay attention to the whole year and these are the guys who are deciding hundreds of millions in residual value.
I really can't believe that racing hasn't taken this more seriously and overhauled the voting process and who can vote. They definitely need a system with 1-2-3 voting points like the Baseball awards and College football polls. They also should take Steve Crist or a few others and have them select a committee of voters that are educated, care about the game, and represent a cross section of racing and geography of the country. That way the east Coast bias whiners couldnt gripe each year.
The voting for Eclipses based on BC day is the lazy man's way to decide who to vote for, and its ruined the way the game is played all year. If I was raciing czar for a day, that would be my first move.

That would be my 1st move as well. Lets take Silver Train for example, that horse could go undefeated all year and actually beat the horse who won the BC Sprint, but since he didnt race outside of Belmont and didnt race in the Sprint then he wouldnt win the award. I really think a committee needs to be formed to vote on these awards, and I like your point systems. There is too much on the line for the vote to be so casual.

Yeah I think so as well.
Its a tragedy that one day decides a wholes year's work. Its just so illogical. Its a day where many if not all(like at Lone Star) of the horses haven't run on that surface and have to ship to race. Many, if not most, horses will not run their "A" race that day. Every year you see horses who are very talented sputtering away on the track. East Coast horses have next to no chance on the hard speed favoring Cali surfaces. And the last time it was at Gulfstream, well if you didn't make the lead or sit near it, you couldnt win. One closer won that day, Anees, and thats only because everyonee knew about the bias by then and they engaged in a torrid duel across the track that exhausted all of em.
You can't decide a whole year's work on one day at a track where many have never run and have to ship in. It should be a tie breaker, if horses are close the rest of the year. The way it is now, its the other way around. Completely illogical.

Mineshaft's Eclipse was the exception to the rule. His dominance was not ignored. :)

Only because they were bright enough to pass it and it worked out ok. Had Medag or Congaree won that day instead of dueling each other, they woulda beat him.
Thats a great example of why the voting is screwed up. Farish/Howard had two choices, and neither was attractive. They could go there and hope to be one of the incredibly few dirt horses to ship in there and run well, or they could pass and hope that a horse won the classic who couldnt unseat him.
Fact is he shoulda been champ regardless of how he did that day. As a result, he didnt run and fans were denied from seeing him again.
Same sort of think happened with Azeri in 2004 and that one should really burn fan's butts. Azeri and Sightseek were locked in a tight duel for the eclipse. Sight was retired before the cup. Now Azeri's people had a problem, if she ran in the distaff and lost, she could lose the vote. If she didn't run at all, she had to sweat out a close vote. So they chose plan c, run her in the classic where she had no chance!!! That way they could claim after the race that they had taken a hard shot and should not be penalized, but couldnt be accused of skipping BC day and being afraid to compete.
Sad part is that their strategy worked.

This year's horse of the year will be decided in the BC, as it should. Down to 3 possible contenders: Lava Man, Bernardini and Invasor. Right now all 3 are likely to ship to Churchill after their next prep.

If we get all 3 of these horses in that race, it would be something of a miracle, lets keep our fingers crossed. May the best horse win.

Tim are you saying that every championship should be decided in the BC? I disagree strongly. This year yes, because they havent met each other yet. But in most years its usually pretty clear who the best is in many divisons.

I have never seen an HOY with a shorter list of vanquished quality horses. I cant think of one good horse Mineshaft ever beat that was in form.

apparently you didnt pay your cable bill the years that Azeri and Favorite Trick won.

No I am with you guys on the BC should not define eclipse awards. Thats as silly as saying the team with the best record in the AL should play the team with the best record in the NL in 1 single game to decide the world champs, and do away with round of 5 and 7 game series in the playoffs.

I'm saying for this year, its actually going to work out. The horse out of those 3 who wins the Classic fully deserves to be HOY.

LOL. good point. I should have amend my statement to say to only include champion older horse.

agreed, but if one of em doesnt?

I guess it all depends on how many of these 3 show up and actually run in the BC. There are so many circumstances if one of these 3 should not win.

We still have to see how these 3 do in their next races. Then it will become a little clearer on what happens if a surprise horse jumps up and wins the BC.

Tim,
Don't you see the problem? What if one of em doesnt win? Then what?
Thats the problem Tim, older horses spend the year ducking each other because thats whats smart. WHy would Invasor or Lava have shipped this year to meet each other when they could stay home and win grade ones. Suppose they run 6th and 7th in the BC, it happens Tim. Speed duels, injuries, bad rides, not liking the track, etc.
Thats the rub. How you decide which horse was better if they both don't fire when they meet? The cup encourages only year end meetings between horses, and often times their form isnt the same as it was earlier in the year.
It deprives fans and racetracks from good all year round matchups.

Racing was much better off before the Breeders Cup, thats the bottom line.

The slogan should be "Racings championship Day that's turned great days all year long into mediocre ones!!!"

Wouldnt you say race grading also has something to do with the ducking? I have always said that the races should be graded AFTER they have been run or not at all. Too many phoney graded stake races out there.

I cant we both agree on this Oracle. I have been saying for years that the Breeders Cup is bad for racing. In theory it is a great idea. But it has taken a whole different look than its intention.

Well there is too many Graded Races in my opinion. Here is a list of Grade I's for 2006 for males 3 year old and up at a distance longer than 1 mile.

Belmont
Breeders Cup Classic
Cigar Mile
Clark Handicap
Donn Handicap
Florida Derby
Haskell
Hollywood Gold Cup
Jockey Club Gold Cup
Kentucky Derby
Metropolitan
Pacific Classic
Pimlico Speical
Preakness
Santa Anita Derby
Santa Anita Handicap
Stephen Foster
Suburban
Toyota Bluegrass Stakes
Travers
Whitney
Wood Memorial
Woodward Stakes

23 Grade I Stakes. That is insane.

I was at Belmont in 2003 to see Mineshaft; I thought I was in an echo chamber. The attendance is sad; even a star like Mineshaft did not bring them in that day. I hope Bernardini does better, but I doubt it. The gamblers need only place a bet; they do not need to see the horses. It is a sad state of affairs.

Fall Championship Meet
 

Right again Oracle, for those of us who follow this great game 365 days a year. the Fall meet at Belmont is a 33 day extension of all the hard work we did at Saratoga. who cares what they call it, lets just continue to cash tickets, But what's really great about Fall Belmont is racing five days a week.

Wouldn't it be funny if someone like Lawyer Ron just went out there and stroked them all on BC day?

Johnny McKee would be hanging on for dear life...

Same with Holy Bull.

Taking nothing away from John Henry, who sat on the sidelines for the '84 BC, but Slew O Gold pretty much got screwed out of HOY after a brilliant campaign winning the Whitney, Marlboro, Woodward, and JCGC by losing a controversial Classic IN California. Had Wild Again been taken down, SOG would have been HOY. If I recall SOG and John were tied in the voting and some tie breaker was used to give John HOY

With Belmont the closest track to me, I truly miss the fall championship series. There used to actually be fans at Belmont on big days other than the Stakes prior to the BC. Anyway, BC day is the best day of racing all year, bar none.

Slewbopper,
I know that the Breeders Cup is here to stay, so the whole conversation/debate is moot. But I think its done more to harm racing than any other innovation in recent times.
The reason we can't generate a fan base that is consistent from June-February, is that we give people no reason to be fans.
People like rivalries, always have and always will. Baseball is a 162 game tedious and long season. Its hard to get worked up about any single game within that span. yet, when the Yankees and red sox play, people tune in. WHy? because of the rivalry of course.
College football is the same way.
In the good old days of my youth, rivalries existed because the only way to win a championship was to beat most of your opponents all year more times than they beat you.
The Breeders Cup was a great idea in theory. A year end celebration of racing that would move from place to place in order to expose more fans to racing.
But what its done is create a voting system for champions that ignores the rest of the years accomplishments and in the process has destroyed the stature of many races. Trainers no longer wanna hook up with the main rival in the year, they play dodgeball, and who can blame them? Its crippled the product all year long and I just don't think that one fantastic day is worth all that.

Okay, I follow but this is how I figure things ...

1. BC Classic Win = HoY = Top Stud Value.
2. BC Classic Purse = $5 Mil = 5x (!!) Value of any other NA Grade 1

So, if you run 3rd in the BCC, the owner gets as much as if he won the JCGC or the Pac Classic. PLUS, you get huge "extra credit" toward the HoY if you win.

To me that's why they all point to the BCC. It's the $$. It's hard to believe that $1 Mil is seen as "change" but it is compared to the BCC and that's the problem. Why the heck the purse is so very high is beyond my understanding.

Oracle: The Breeders Cup was a great idea in theory. A year end celebration of racing that would move from place to place in order to expose more fans to racing.
But what its done is create a voting system for champions that ignores the rest of the years accomplishments and in the process has destroyed the stature of many races. Trainers no longer wanna hook up with the main rival in the year, they play dodgeball, and who can blame them? Its crippled the product all year long and I just don't think that one fantastic day is worth all that.
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You are absolutely right on all accounts. The BC has destroyed the the handicap TC of the Met Mile, Suburban, and Brooklyn. It caused Philip Morris to bow out of the Marlboro Hcp. Many establ;ished G1 races have been shortened to accomadate the BC. The only 1 1/2 mile dirt race left in America is the archaic Belmont Stakes which is run at that distance for tradition only.

I am sure that all of us that were following the game at the inception of the BC thought it was a wonderful thing. In retrospect what has happened, is, as you said, we are waiting around all year for one day while one time meaningful races run throughout the year are nothing more than a means to this end.

Stud,
Its not the purse money my friend. Its the chance at residual value for being a champion.
Purse money, even 5 or 6 mill, doesnt even put a dent in what a horse is worth if its a champion.
Look at the Dubai World cup. 6 mill and now noone will send a good horse over there. Why? because they know that they will come back with a spent horse and no shot to be champ. Purse money is not gonna match a 20 mill or 10 mill stud deal.

I agree that rivalries create interest, but when horses run 5-6 times a year, they are not going to meet enough times to create the kind of rivalry that will captivate new fans. The BC may have had a small impact on the number of races a horse runs in a year, but I don't think it is the source of all evil that you make it out to be. Horses just aren't running as often, and they are not running as long. It's hard to have a rivalry when the very best horses retire as 3-yr-olds.

Red Sox fans tune in because they have rooted for that team for years. Ohio State fans tune in because they know they will meet Michigan yet again this year. But if there are Bernardini fans out there, they know (if they are smart) that there is less than a 25% chance that they will get to root for Bernardini this time next year.

Without a BC, we would still have had no more than one chance this year to see Lava Man face either Invasor or Bernardini. Maybe no chances.

I agree with your point that the BC gets too much emphasis at Eclipse time. However, I don't remember being personally outraged at any picks because of the BC factor. (I WOULD have thrown a fit if Leroidanimeax had been denied an Eclipse because of his BC loss, though.) Are there any Eclipse winners that you thought were particularly poor choices (because of over-emphasis on a BC win/loss)?

--Dunbar

I think we are long past the days of rivalries in horse racing, unless you are like me and love claimers, allowance and small restricted stakes. They seem to evoke the only real rivalries in the game.

Take for instance Dave, Certifiably Crazy, Pa Pa Da and Golden Commander, who seem to meet at least once a month. Or Finlandia, Lamp is Lit, Sabellina, On the Bus and Lady Bi Bi. Those are some good ones.

In high level raing we can kiss real rivalries goodbye. The sport will neve be able to measure up to baseball or college basketball in terms of rivalries and attachment to certain horses, like we have with teams.

Seems just when you get attached to a 3 year old, he/she is retiring or injured. Thank God for horses like Lava Man, Tin Man, Captain Squire, Funny Cide, and Caller One.

One of the biggest problems with the Breeders cup is that unlike the Derby you dont have to actually do anything to qualify for the races. Sure you have to be a good horse but outside of the Turf mile or Sprint, the races rarely overfill. I know people flame the Derby system of Graded earning but at least it forces trainers to compete in order to earn enough to qualify.

Another reason that rivalries dont exist is that the same small group of trainers train all the good horses. Think of the 2yo races you could have if you matched up the Pletcher and Blasmussen barns alone.

'blassmusen'--I like that...@ the very least when they do happen to run against each other they should be uncoupled...unlike in the hopeful.

I thought speightstown over Pico Central was a terrible choice. Pico Central not only won bigger races, he dominated when the two met head to head.