Divisional best by decade since 1900
 

There are a great many variables that go into handicapping a race. Handicapping completed careers is far easier - you're simply comparing an entire racing career with another, in division, from a relatively similar time period in history.

Horses are rated divisionally - by decade - based on accomplishment and ability. Hence horses who had superior ability at peak (like Formal Gold and Candy Ride types of recent) will be rated behind the slightly less monsterous who campaigned hard and achieved a lot more. I've put even a little less emphasis on peak ability than in the past - because it is so much harder to uncover it in charts and pp's with old, old-time horses.

1900's:

2yo: Colin
3yo's: Sysonby, Fitz Herbert, Hermis, Colin
Older horse: Hermis, Ballot, Roseben, King James

1910's:

2yo: Man O' War
3yo: Roamer, Sir Barton, Friar Rock, The Finn
Older horse: Whisk Broom, Old Rosebud, Roamer, Cudgel

1920's:

2yo: Morvich
3yo: Man O' War, Reigh Count, Grey Lag, Crusader
Older horse: Exterminator, Sarazen, Sun Beau, Chance Play

1930's:

2yo: Top Flight (f)
3yo: War Admiral, Gallant Fox, Twenty Grand, Omaha
Older horse: Discovery, Equipoise, Seabiscuit, War Admiral

1940's:

2yo: Count Fleet
3yo: Citation, Whirlaway, Count Fleet, Assault
Older horse: Whirlaway, Armed, Coaltown, Challedon

1950's:

2yo: Native Dancer
3yo: Native Dancer, Bold Ruler, Swaps, Sword Dancer
Older horse: Round Table, Tom Fool, Swaps, Nashua

1960's:

2yo: Buckpasser
3yo: Damascus, Buckpasser, Arts and Letters, Kelso
Older horse: Kelso, Dr. Fager, Gun Bow, Native Diver

1970's:

2yo: Ruffian (f)
3yo: Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, Alydar
Older horse: Forego, Affirmed, Ack Ack, Seattle Slew

1980's:

2yo: Easy Goer
3yo: Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Spend A Buck, Conquistador Cielo
Older horse: Spectacular Bid, Alysheba, John Henry, Ferdinand

1990's:

2yo: Favorite Trick
3yo: Holy Bull, Silver Charm, Skip Away, Unbridled
Older horse: Skip Away, Cigar, Criminal Type, Gentlemen

2000-to-2009:

2yo: War Pass
3yo: Smarty Jones, Tiznow, Point Given, Bernardini
Older horse: Ghostzapper, Mineshaft, Medaglia D' Oro, Invasor


Best since 1900:

2yo: Native Dancer
3yo: Citation, Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, Damascus
Older horse: Kelso, Forego, Discovery, Spectacular Bid

If you're more partial to old, old-time horses than I am - Colin is your 2yo and rate Discovery ahead of Forego and Equipoise ahead of Spectacular Bid.

While the 1900's through the 1920's was tricky - so few horses actually raced that it wasn't a tough process to identify who the seven or so best were and to - in some cases - try and split hairs. The best 3yo from '00 to '09 is brutal though. Smarty Jones could almost as easily been rated 9th best as best.

Hard to leave Curlin off the list both 3 year old and older 2000-2009.

I was a fan of Curlin but he's very hard to include as an older horse. His big celebrated win as an older horse was a very weak Dubai World Cup.

He for sure could be included as a 3-year-old. That was a total case of splitting hairs - but those sound defeats in the Derby and Haskell and losing to Rags to Riches in the Belmont don't help him. The older horses were awful when he was around.

Bless your heart putting Mineshaft in there. Flowers coming to Erie.

Mineshaft sucked until he got lasix.

Mineshaft, Medaglia D' Oro, Congaree, Candy Ride all at their peak the same year. They sometimes made horses look hopelessly common who would be handicap superstars today.

So he was a bleeder who cares? All I know is Howard isn't a cheater and that horse was awesome without Frankeljuice.

just curious, how did Saint Liam compare to those

landaluces 82' season as a 2yo was a monster

He gave Ghostzapper a great race in the Woodward when he floated him out to the hot dog stand. His Woodward win the following year was tainted by the fact Dutrow used two rabbits to take care of Commentator...leaving only Sir Shackelton to beat. He beat Flower Alley and Perfect Drift in a BC Classic that was as slow as any figure wise since this past years.

I don't think SL was quite as good as Ghostzapper, Mineshaft, or MDO - he had some races that could beat Invasor, but I think Invasor beat a lot better BC Classic field.

Speaking along the lines of a Landaluce type 2yo - this Old Rosebud was one of the most bad ass old, old-time horses. I'm not sure Man O' War had anything on him as a 2yo.

This was his form going into the 1914 Kentucky Derby:




Here's the chart of his KY Derby win:



He won the KY Derby by 8 lengths at 4/5 odds - shaved 1.40 seconds off of the track record on a track that wasn't even yielding times all that fast. Good solid male sprinters went 6f in 1:13 3/5 in one race and 1:14 in another race - so 2:03 2/5 at Churchill is booking. The strong 2nd choice was a clear 2nd. He later won a bunch stakes at Churchill - including the Clark Handicap two years in a row. Big gaps all over. That's a race you'd project a figure in like the low 120's for.

Old Rosebud gets hurt in his very next race after the KY Derby and is laid off for 3 years. He returns off of a 3-year layoff and wins 15 of 21 races and gets credited as Horse of the Year as a 6yo.

surprised more people dont know about this one even though from 1914, what a record, adn also amazing after that 3 yrs off

Great stuff, I love history and horse racing is very much a part of American History.

Glad to see Buckpasser in there, he is my horse's grandfather.:)

Old Rosebud would have been a PETA case had he died in 2011 rather than 1922.

Hard to put him on IMO.

Nice list Drugs....nice to see Old Rosebud get some well deserved love!

I like the list here but Curlin had a nice career

He was named Horse of the Year in 2007 and 2008, and was also Champion 3-year-old in 2007 and Champion Older Male in 2008. Some of his major wins include the Breeders' Cup Classic, Jockey Club Gold Cup (twice), Dubai World Cup, Preakness, Rebel, Arkansas Derby, Stephen Foster Handicap, and Woodward Stakes. Curlin retired with 11 wins in 16 starts and earnings of over $10.5 million, the most ever by a thoroughbred race horse.

I tend to agree with the original list, but have not yet taken the time for my own research. Certainly no one on there simply dosn't belong.

Curlin won a bunch of important races and had a very good career but at 3 he lost the Belmont to a filly and the Haskell which he shouldn't have. (I am willing to give his Derby a pass as he was still very much a work in progress at the time, having just debuted on Feb 7.) I guess in retrospect they should have passed on the grass experiment and manybe loked at the Foster (I don't have dates here, but I'm guessing that it was close in time to the grass race.) Like many modern horses they picked and chose their spots to avoid certain rivals and meet the easiest fields, then stood back and said "See how great he is!"

More people should know who are not familiar with the sport.

Commando came mighty close to Colin and I'd give him 2nd place in the 1900's 2yos. I might also squeak Zev in for 1920's 3yo's. I wonder what happened to him in the Preakness?

Some great inclusions in there Doug...

Challedon is a horse not nearly enough people know about. Gun Bow another that whose praises aren't sung enough.

Devil Diver merits an honorable mention in the 40's, no? And what do you do in a survey like this with my favorite, Gallorette?

As I mentioned in an earlier thread today, Gallorette was a multi-GI winner against males in two distinctly different disciplines...as a six year old mare. And she was beating HOF'ers to boot. Is there even a modern-day equivalent to that?

ETA - how awesome were the fillies/mares from 1944-1948 or so? Three legit hall of famers on the track at the same time.

Very interesting and nicely-assembled list.

My one question is about this one. How close was it between Count Fleet and Citation (who I assume was second) in your mind? I take it you didn't hold it against Count Fleet that it took him a few races to get going.

I guess the same question could be asked in other divisions as well. When comparing Bernardini to, for example, Curlin or Rachel Alexandra how much do you count Bernardini's debut against him? Does it matter that he started off his 3yo season with a defeat in a MSW, or do you primarily just look at how good the horses were once they got going and were running at their preferred distances, etc.?

St. Liam also went to Cali and got drilled by Rock Hard Ten. I want to say SL was even money or less. He also lost to Commentator that year when he was 3-5. It would be close to impossible to put him on that list.

The older horses of the 40's was a whole lot of splitting hairs. Devil Diver had a strong case for inclusion, as did other like Stymie and Assault (his 4yo form was solid) - One of those divisions where very little, if anything, seemed to seperate like 1 through 8.

Gallorette was easily one of the great race mares of all-time - and she faced a lot of strong male competition at several points - but her case for inclusion isn't very good unless you're graded fillies and mares on a curve - in which case, she's a total shoe-in for inclusion.

Count Fleet's route races at age 2 were absolutely superior performances. I don't hold his early season sprints that much against him - a field of 14 and field of 16 for babies going 5f and 5.5f - the chart indicated he had trouble in both races and he finished 2nd.

I didn't hold Bernardini's debut against him that much - heck, for an A. P. Indy first-time-starter going 6f - it sure wasn't bad. I don't think he faced any serious competition at all - to say the least - until the Breeders Cup Classic ... which he would have certainly won with a competent ride .. and I say that as someone who bet against him in that race. I think Tiznow was the best 3yo of that decade. However, I held the fact that he missed the triple crown series and pretty much the entire first half of the season against him... more than I held Smarty Jones missing the 2nd half of the season against him. As we know, the first half of the season is made to be all about the 3yo division.

I've always had a huge problem with Mineshaft getting as much credit as he does and being named HOY in 2003. While he certainly was a good horse, they were extremely fortunate that year with him. While you don't ever want to criticize anyone for chosing a schedule that includes the Pimlico Special, Foster, Suburban, Woodward, and JCGC because those are the races you are supposed to run in with a horse of that caliber, I think that you have to look deeper than the names of the races that year. It's not his/their fault that none of the other top older males showed up to face him in those races. Most of the supporters of Mineshaft say that they were ducking him. I don't think that was the case at all. Either way, there remains the simple fact that 2003 was a pretty good year for the older male division. That season, we had Candy Ride, Medaglia d'Oro, Pleasantly Perfect, Congaree, Perfect Drift, Mineshaft, and Milwaukee Brew. While most of those horses were locking horns with each other several times during the year, taking turns knocking each other off and tarnishing each other's records, Mineshaft got away virtually unscathed. I think that those seven I named above were the general consensus seven top older males that year and Mineshaft only had to face ONE of them (Perfect Drift) and he only faced that one horse ONE time (in the Foster) and he LOST that one matchup. I feel like in a lot of ways, that situation is not unlike 2010 with Zenyatta. While Blame was taking on the best of the older horses all year (Battle Plan, Haynesfield, and Quality Road), Zenyatta was facing second and third rate horses all year and beating them and then in her one matchup with a top horse, she lost. If you wonder where this current trend of connections playing duck soup really took off, where less became more, I think 2003 is a good place to start.

This is preposterous.

Mineshaft- 9 starts.
Congaree- 9 starts.
Medaglia D'Oro- 5 starts.
Pleasantly Perfect- 4 starts.
Milwaukee Brew- 4 starts.
Candy Ride- 3 starts.

Congaree was dusted in the Met Mile and beaten on the square in both the Kentucky Cup and the Breeder's Cup.

Pleasantly Perfect and Milwaukee Brew were opportunists at best.

Perfect Drift wasted starts on turf and was no factor in the BC.

Medaglia D'Oro beat the exact same horses Mineshaft did (ie Olmodovar, Evening Attire, Volponi, etc.), but lost both his starts at 10f including the BC Classic.

Candy Ride won a single main track race in a 3-horse field which included a horse that was retired 24 hours later with an injury, and he himself was never heard from again.

Didnt the trainer of St Liam put a rabbit to keep Commentator company in thier next meeting? Didn't it work? St Liam won the race. The race you're talking about wasn't Commentator the lone speed that day and went wire toi wire?

Well put KG. Lest we forget that Mineshaft lost to Balto Star that year as well but in fairness that was before they gave him Lasix.

Frankel shipped MDO west after the Whitney that year and Milwaukee Brew was already out there. He chose to run them both in the Pacific Classic and i have read where people have argued that he was ducking Mineshaft. I have to disagree with that though considering that the BC was out west that year and there were a few more advantages to running at del Mar as opposed to running in the woodard or JCGC.

It could be argued that Baffert ducked by sending Congaree to turfway but that doesnt hold water because Perfect Drift was there and that horse had already beaten mineshaft.

The good three year olds coming up were either off form (funny cide), retiring (empire maker), or more suited to shorter distance (peace rules). Ten most wanted was too slow and he was a west coast horse anyway. There was Dynever but that horse could find a way to lose the cleveland cavs.

Mineshaft came along in the right year (or the wrong year depending on how one sees things). Surely he was a nice horse but unfortunately he never proved it beating any other nice horses.

By less, I wasn't referring at all to number of starts. I was talking about taking the paths of least resistence. I wouldn't care if a horse ran twice. If they took on the toughest competition out there, I'd value that more than one that starts 10 times and doesn't face anything other than allowance competition. You mention that Medaglia lost both of his starts at 10f. While that's true, just saying that doesn't even begin to tell the story. In the Pacific Classic, if I'm not mistaken, he also broke the track record while losing. In the BC, he ran his eyeballs out while losing to a pretty good 10f horse while dueling throughout the race with another one in Congaree. This whole thing about him and 10f is pretty stupid. It wasn't the distance that found him out in either of those races. If that were the case, he wouldn't have won the Travers and lost the Belmont by just a 1/2 length, I don't care who he was facing in those races. Personally, I think too much is made of wins and losses and the actual performance is lost. A horse like Rachel Alexandra is made into some kind of superhero for dueling with Big Drama and holding off Mine that Bird or for dueling in the Woodward and holding off Macho Again yet MDO is downgraded because he couldn't hold off Pleasantly Perfect after dueling with Congaree and Winning Colors is downgraded because she couldn't hold off Risen Star after dueling with Forty Niner (and running him into submission) in the Preakness.

You talk about how Congaree and MDO and Perfect Drift were beaten in the Classic but you miss the point I was making in the first place. That they were all there to face each other meant that all of them except for one would have to lose. Congaree faced Perfect Drift in Kentucky. They both couldn't win. MDO and Candy Ride both couldn't win the Pacific Classic. Congaree, Milwaukee Brew, and Pleasantly Perfect were all in the San Antonio. This is what I'm talking about. Their records were all going to suffer because they were consistently facing each other while Mineshaft was getting a steady diet of lower level horses.

Dude, ever heard of a 'paragraph' and it's proper usage?

Yes, cause this is the most gramatically offensive of all posts on here. Sorry.

I didn't say Medaglia D'Oro couldn't stay 10f. All I said was that he lost both his starts that year at 10f in 2003. I presume some Eclipse voters might have scored Mineshaft a little higher since he won 3 races at a classic distance in 2003, whereas MDO had none.

Consistently facing each other? Congaree and Pleasantly Perfect faced each other 3 times. Congaree and Milwaukee Brew faced each other twice. Congaree faced Perfect Drift twice. See a pattern developing? Only Congaree took on all comers (he even when toe-to-toe with the year's best sprinter, too).

Pleasantly Perfect made all of 4 starts, all at Santa Anita. His record "suffered" because he didn't run between March and October and he couldn't get close to Congaree without a tailor-made setup.

Instead of trying to pad your argument with nonsense, just say what your main gripe is...that Mineshaft didn't run in the BC Classic. Who cares? The race was won by the worst of your top 7 older horses that year when the beneficiary of one of the greatest setups of all time. Mineshaft had the more illustrious campaign of the bunch. The only other horse that didn't have a cherry-picked season was Congaree, but he had too many high-profile losses (Big Cap, Met Mile, etc.) to overtake Mineshaft.

I find your argument pretty ironic coming from a guy who thinks Java Gold should have been HOY in 1987.

Maybe the way he is saying it is wrong, using words like ducking but the facts behind the argument are strong. Mineshaft beat no one at all. He lost to Perfect Drift who at some point turned into a giant hanger. The money he cost me when he hung in the Whitney, OMG. No facts to back this up just my opinion, but Im fairly certain Candy Ride would have beat Mineshaft, at any distance. I wont comment about anyone else on the list.

You're getting worse. Not including every matchup:
Perfect Drift faced Congaree in at Turfway and Mineshaft in the Foster
Congaree faced everyone all year
Medaglia faced Candy Ride at Del Mar and ran in the BC
Pleasantly Perfect faced Congaree and Milwaukee Brew in February and was in the Classic.

Of those seven, all of them faced more than one other member of the group and most of them did so multiple times. The only one that didn't was Mineshaft. This is a fact that you can't argue.

I couldn't care less if Mineshaft had run in the Classic or not. Quite often, the horse I've thought should have been HOY didn't run in the Classic. Still doesn't change the fact that while the others were facing each other, some of them several times, Mineshaft got away without having to be challenged by any of them and the one time he was, he lost. Debate it how you want to but that's the truth. If he had to face Congaree a couple of times or Medaglia or Candy Ride, I doubt he comes out with the same kind of record he had.

And yeah, the Java Gold argument is the same. He only beat Alysheba, Bet Twice, Gulch, Nostalgia's Star, Cryptoclearance, Polish Navy, Broad Brush, Temperate Sil, Cutlass Reality, etc. Save for Ferdinand and Lost Code, he beat just about every other top class dirt horse out there.

What I actually said is that when you run in the races that Mineshaft did, nobody can accuse you of ducking. I don't think anyone ducked him either. It was just a case were there were plenty of opportunities around and for whatever reasons, Mineshaft was fortunate that things worked out for him where he didn't have to face other top horses. The fact is that even if one were to think he was the best of all horses that year, he won ZERO races against top competition.

Yeah, I mentioned all that already. These one-off matchups amongst a group of 6 horses is hardly "consistently facing each other" or "several times" as you have commented. The only two that faced each other more than twice was Congaree and Pleasantly Perfect.

Why is a single horse's record (Mineshaft) being pitted against 6 other horses collectively? Consider those 6 horses individually, and none can overcome the accomplishments of Mineshaft.

He wintered at Fair Grounds, made a couple of starts in KY, and was based in NY the rest of the year. I guess the Kentucky Cup Classic, Hawthorne Gold Cup, Washington Park Handicap (all grade 2s) would have made more sense.

Don't bother bringing up forays to Del Mar. Nobody had Candy Ride at the top of their list of top handicap horses (how could they?--no one knew who he was). Guess why Frankel showed up there instead of the Woodward?

Yeah, it's too bad Frankel was watching Medaglia D'Oro's weight throughout the year, Congaree would only race around one-turn in NY, Candy Ride only appeared from June to August, and Pleasantly Perfect was waiting for those still in training to burn out come late October.

He did get revenge on Balto Star in the Pimlico Special at least.

Nostalgia's Star? I laughed.

How'd he do in the Triple Crown?

Soon as I finish looking up Hold that Tiger's record. Might as well look up Quest's record too and Western Pride and Judge's Case. Those monsters that Mineshaft had to face while the real top horses were facing each other.

PP's of the top older males from 2003:

http://test.drf.com/eclipse/2003/pps/om.pdf


Perfect Drift was a complete and utter badass that year. His dopey trainer kept running him on turf and talking about how he was going to enter him in the Melbourne Cup.

I remember before Perfect Drift made his 5-year-old debut and all the hanging problems started - he was based at the CD training center. Before his first start that season, Wismer told me he thought something was amiss with him. He gallops horses that he trains and was on the track with him a lot of mornings. He told me not to bet Perfect Drift in his comeback race and said he thought he might miss the board - I basically laughed at him and mocked him for thinking that.

Thanks for posting that Drugs. So if my ciphering is correct, here's what I get. Out of those seven horses (Candy Ride, Congaree, Medaglia d'Oro, Milwaukee Brew, Mineshaft, Perfect Drift, Pleasantly Perfect), here's the total number of matchups against the others in that group:

Congaree-8 (in four races, one win)
(Pleasantly Perfect 3x, Milwaukee Brew 2x, Perfect Drift 2x, MDO 1x)

Pleasantly Perfect-7 (in three races, one win)
(Congaree 3x, Milwaukee Brew 2x, MDO 1x, Perfect Drift 1x)

Milwaukee Brew-6 (in three races, one win)
(Congaree 2x, Pleasantly Perfect 2x, Candy Ride 1x, MDO 1x)

Medaglia d'Oro-5 (in two races, no wins)
(Candy Ride, Milwaukee Brew, Pleasantly Perfect, Congaree, Perfect Drift 1x each)

Perfect Drift-5 (in three races, two wins)
(Congaree 2x, MDO 1x, Pleasantly Perfect 1x, Mineshaft 1x)

Candy Ride-2 (in one race, one win)
(MDO, Milwaukee Brew 1x each)

Mineshaft-1 (in one race, no wins)
(Perfect Drift 1x)
___________________

So with the exception of Candy Ride and Mineshaft, each of those other five faced another of the top seven in multiple races. It's pretty easy to see why I said they were facing each other consistently and beating each other. It's not unlike 1997 when Will's Way, Skip Away, and Formal Gold kept facing each other and beating each other up and Favorite Trick snuck in and won HOY. Again, you can't fault a horse for who shows up to face them, especially when they are running in the right races as Mineshaft was. But you also can't excape the reality of the fact that Mineshaft got off easy that year in comparison to what the others were facing on a regular basis.