Raw Talent...
 

Name the 5 most talented horses in the past 10 years, not the most accomplished or the ones with the most Grade 1's... Just those horses that we may have called freaks, all USA list.


Bernardini
Midnight Lute
Eskendereya
Point Given
Zenyatta

I'm really starting to hate Tuesday's around here........

I was just reading through some old threads, and I noticed someone saying Bernardini is the second best horse they ever saw, what an amazing horse.... It got me thinking. So instead of this response, why not your opinion.

I personally think that the list doesn't make any sense. How does Zenyatta make it? Unless the point is to start ANOTHER useless thread revolving around her.

It has nothing at all to do with Z, its my opinion. IMO she is one of the most talented horses I have saw. 18/18, the way she wins, beating the boys. In all honesty, at 9f OR 10f Bernardini, Eskendereya and Point Given would have all CRUSHED HER.

I usually think of horses who display brilliant speed and are able to perform best at a mile or better.

Ghostzapper
Discreet Cat
Quality Road
Hard Spun

Maybe the fact that Eskendereya made the list is F'n me up. While I agree that there is a chance he could have been a special horse, I have a tough time putting him on top of any list based on the limited number of times he ran. Not to mention the company he ran against.

how bout Mineshaft?

I totally agree with this list, Ghostzapper is likely the most brillant of them all.

Lets wait for Randall to comment on him, he is the Mineshaft pro.


What do all these horses have in common?

Quest, Evening Attire, Hold that Tiger, Puzzlement, Volponi, Dollar Bill, Western Pride, Judges Case, American Style Mettron, Strive, Bonapaw, Learned, Discreet Hero, Majestic Theif, Moon Ballard, Revised Note, Roar Of The Tiger

I'm not familiar with half of them but of the ones I recognize I'll say they finished second and third more times than they won.

Its basicley the 2-3 finishers from all of Mineshafts races, and you not being familiar with half of them says it all IMO. Mineshaft, I guess was ok, but losing to Perfect Drift and the best horse you ever beat being Volponi does not say much IMO.

Single race, who wins? Ghostzapper vs. Candy Ride in the 2003 Pacific Classic.

I was waiting for someone to bring up the brilliant, fantastic, raw talent freak Candy Ride.

NT

Please dont go there. Candy Ride was A BEAST. He is also on my list. He is 1a.

I actually think its a pretty neat Question this is from A Personel Experience a little earlier than 2000 I believe 1998(without looking it Up) We Broke An trained Chilukki from the first time we breezed her up until we sold her at fasig Tipton I thought she was an absolute freak. Still to this day when she made her debut at CD it was the biggest win bet I have ever made.

She was a total freak...

She broke her maiden with a 109 beyer first time out. 4.5 furlongs at Churchill in 51 flat winning by 9.5 lenghts.
At the time Cherokee Runs stud fee was 20k and she sold for 875k, I wonder what her sale work was. Doug?

I wouldn't use my memory as a gauge of anything. I thought Bonapaw was a midwest sprinter. Which race did he finish behind mineshaft ?

I know people dont really care about weight but he did give PD 8 pounds that day. It was one of the better losing efforts Ive seen.

Discreet Cat was the freakiest horse Ive seen over the past decade..

2/9/03 Fairgrounds... It was a Grade 3 that Balto Star actually won, Mineshaft finished second, less then a length ahead of Bonapaw.
After that race is when he appears to have got really good, winning 6/7 and all 7 races he beyered 114 or higher.

Candy Ride (obvious talent / very fast)

Curlin (Demonstrated great ability right off the bat with multiple terrific performances in an incredibly short period of time from his debut to the Preakness....unbelievable)

Ghostzapper (obvious talent / very fast)

Discreet Cat (obvious talent / very fast)

Empire Maker (This horse always had the reputation of being a bit of a goof. He never seemed to really put it all together mentally, and had some injury problems, etc. He won three G1s and never finished out of the exacta on talent alone)

The title of your thread got me thinking. I believe Raw Talent was the name of the autobiography of 80's adult film star, Jerry Butler. A humorous read, if I recall correctly.

I dont know about Discreet Cat, what was he? A true true miler? If thats the case then I guess so. I think Midnight Lute was a better sprinter and Bernardini would have killed him going 9f.

Given his performance in the Cigar Mile, I'd say yeah.

That was a WOW type effort... A lot like the Borrego video I posted the other day.

Hmmm Good Question I want to say she went in 21 Flat and when she did it that was unheard of, I actually Checked Fasig tiptons Website they have an Archive for Under tack shows but it only goes back till 2003. Mitch:D

Ghostzapper. Fastest horse the last 10 years.

Mineshaft. The best handicapper season since Cigar.

Curlin. As already stated, to go from a late debut to the Preakness with so little foundation against a good crop. He validated it later on.

Smarty Jones. Ran the 3 fastest spring sheet numbers ever at the time. Before he got to Churchill, he was the fastest they had on record. 3rd in the Belmont was 8 lengths back.

Point Given/Empire Maker. This is subjective. While both accomplished quite a bit- particularly PG's 4 straight million dollar races- I'm not sure we saw the best of them. I think either could have been a monster at 4.

Very difficult to leave off Barbaro, whom many think was better on turf, Rachel Alexandra, the best 3yo filly I ever saw, or Midnight Lute when he was healthy.

Kickin n Screamin-bad trainer
Hank-Don't mess with him
Lloydobler- Able to place many times with a slimmed down Sciacca galloping him
Joe the Dude-you don't know yet
Angry Dragon-Shiek Kauffman calls the shots

I know Midnight Lute gets many a mention on this thread, but I'm not sure he's fully being appreciated even so. If not for a breathing problem, he'd be more like Ghostzapper in terms of range of distance. Baffert originally figured him as a TC/BCC hopeful, but couldn't fix the air issues in time. Given how he stayed sprinting, I guess it was never fully resolved.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...aul&id=3120551

Baffert flat out says he was going to be his Derby horse. I believe it. I think you're talking a horse with the raw talent to be a world beater at any distance. I'd be excited to have one of his foals on the way, honestly. I've always felt Real Quiet was underrated, and it's a real shame ML had those problems. If he gets a TC hopeful, what do you wanna bet someone's gonna go 'well his sire was a champion sprinter so you can't expect him to go long.' Completely underestimates the potential of his progeny (provided he doesn't also pass on his own physical flaw).

Besides a few of the aforementioned horses, I would add Bellamy Road.

He was a really good one, but if your going to add a horse like him, off of 1 giant effort, then I guess I can add Borrego off of one giant effort.

he had more than one giant effort. his win before the wood was a big one, and he ran well in the travers off a layoff. obviously a very, very talented horse.

Where were you yesterday? LOL I could have used this backup. His Pacific Classic before the JCGC was huge also.

She's talking about Bellamy Road, not Borrego.

What's the view on Lost in the Fog? He did do a 1:07 and change 6f. He's also a King's Bishop winner. RIP to him and Harry "Battle of the G** D*** Bulge" Aleo. One of the funniest moments of live sports tv interviews I've seen. I bet more than one producer passed out. I think Quint was the interviewer, and he went pretty pale. In fairness, it was a pretty stupid question.

Good point... In that case, the Gulfstream allowance filed SUCKED. It was a disaster he should have cruised. I agree about the Travers, I have said multiples times I thought the Travers validated him as being very good. As far as huge efforts and being brillant he had 1 IMO, but I guess he would be very high on any raw talent list and thats what this is.

I don't care about your opinion. I just found it funny you totally didn't read her post and just responded for the sake of responding.

More thread pollution.

nevermind, it's been covered.

Big brown, midnight lute, fusaichi Pegasus of the ones that haven't been named