Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676969)

Lookin at Lucky cant lose.

Today I saw a horse more up early in hand, and just crush what was supposed to be a great group, with a wide premature move. Could Garcia have been sitting on any more horse??
I dont give a **** what the beyer comes back, they are subjective pieces of crap that get changed at the drop of a hat. I hope it comes back a 99, because visually that was far and away the best performance by a 3yr old this year, other then Eskendereya. L@L has improved so much, and will only be better in the Travers. 5 star lock of the century.
Baffert is a rockstar, best trainer in the world and the game is better when he has the big horse.... He told me on FB a week ago Trappe Shot was nothing to him, he was winning this race, lol WHAT A LEGEND.

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 676974)

Really Joseph? Great? Maybe a bunch of decent horses that all have run a few big races here and that turned it into a deep race. But I wouldn't exactly call that a group great.

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676969)

Today I saw a horse more up early in hand, and just crush what was supposed to be a great group,

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 676976)

Great group? As Coach Pants so eloquently stated before the race ... "all of these horses suck"

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 676974)

Really Joseph? Great? Maybe a bunch of decent horses that all have run a few big races here and that turned it into a deep race. But I wouldn't exactly call that a group great.

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676977)

Ok.... Derby and Preakness 1-2 in the race, Trappe Shot... Um How many DT members were crazy about him? Large win bet over 3-1, top beyer, thats what we have been hearing in the other thread. He ROLLED HOME TODAY.

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 676978)

text to my business partner after the race:

"LaL is a piece of crap, what does it say about the rest of them"

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 676978)

text to my business partner after the race:

"LaL is a piece of crap, what does it say about the rest of them"




It couldn't have been any better- Monmouth got the best 3yo's out there. That's the problem. They are all terrible. That was a dreadful race.

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676979)

Phil he is not a piece of crap. He is very very good.

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676975)

I said supposed to be.... I said Super Saver and Ice Box were IMPOSSIBLE. I did not think it was that great, but I though Trappe Shot was his main competition and he blew that one away. I dont see how Trappe Shot can ever make this difference up, L@L will only get better. He is not done improving and getting better, I truly believe that. When this year is over, we are going to go from thinking this crop sucked and maybe it does as a group, but he will stand out as a REALLY REALLY GOOD HORSE.

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 676983)

He probably will stand out as a very good horse in an extremely brutal crop.

I also thought that Trapp Shot ran a pretty good race despite Garcia giving him a tour of the entire Monmouth main track. Probably didn't matter anyway as LAL was much the best.

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676981)

Phil I love you, but I totally disagree with you here.
In 2 months we will be talking about 2yr old champion, Haskell, Travers, big prep and BC winner or runner up to QR. He is far from a POS.

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676981)

Phil I love you, but I totally disagree with you here.
In 2 months we will be talking about 2yr old champion, Haskell, Travers, big prep and BC winner or runner up to QR. He is far from a POS.

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 676987)

Here are the winners of the Haskell the last 20 or so years and you tell me where you would rank him amongst them.
Lookin At Lucky
Rachel Alexandra
Big Brown
Any Given Saturday
Bluegrass Cat
Roman Ruler
Lion Heart
Peace Rules
War Emblem
Point Given
Dixie Union
Menifee
Coronado's Quest
Touch Gold
Skip Away
Serena's Song
Holy Bull
Kissin Kris
Technology
Lost Mountain
Restless Con
King Glorious
Forty Niner
Bet Twice

One word answer.
LAST

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 676985)

Does that mean he's going to beat Zenyatta?

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676988)

I can only discuss back to Holy Bull....No way last Phil, Big Brown lol he was a total POS, talk about a bad crop. This years 3yr olds are 100x better then that crop. Really Any Given Saturday and Bluegrass Cat, ughh... NO WAY LAST.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 676991)

Trappe Shot was 5/2 in the betting today - in what was his Graded Stakes debut. What does that tell you about how great this field was?

He was coming off of a 2.5 length win over Nacho Friend in a race where he faced only 3 opponents.

Nacho Friend is 0-for-6 lifetime in stakes races .. he failed to even win or finish 2nd in his first five attempts - losing to such fine winners as Backtalk, Awesome Act, Endorsement, Ibboyee, and Afleet Express.

Originally Posted by Arletta (Post 676989)

against a Haskell field many consider the deepest in the race's 43-year history.[/i]"

Originally Posted by Arletta (Post 676989)

An excerpt from an article in the BloodHorse

"A year after Rachel Alexandra completed the Preakness/Haskell double en route to Horse of the Year honors, Lookin At Lucky has accomplished the same feat -- against a Haskell field many consider the deepest in the race's 43-year history."



http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ookin-at-lucky

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 676969)

I dont give a **** what the beyer comes back, they are subjective pieces of crap that get changed at the drop of a hat.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 677004)

This is too funny. You were going on about how great a race it was and using your imaginary Beyers to support that, then when you are told the accurate figure, Beyers are meaningless and subjective.

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 676987)

Here are the winners of the Haskell the last 20 or so years and you tell me where you would rank him amongst them.
Lookin At Lucky
Rachel Alexandra
Big Brown
Any Given Saturday
Bluegrass Cat
Roman Ruler
Lion Heart
Peace Rules
War Emblem
Point Given
Dixie Union
Menifee
Coronado's Quest
Touch Gold
Skip Away
Serena's Song
Holy Bull
Kissin Kris
Technology
Lost Mountain
Restless Con
King Glorious
Forty Niner
Bet Twice

One word answer.
LAST

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane (Post 677007)

If LAL runs in and wins the Travers he will join four of the horses on the list who have won both the Haskell and Travers. I see at least 7 horses on that list that have nowhere near LAL's resume and 7 that he could easily surpass by the end of the year.

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane (Post 677007)

If LAL runs in and wins the Travers he will join four of the horses on the list who have won both the Haskell and Travers. I see at least 7 horses on that list that have nowhere near LAL's resume and 7 that he could easily surpass by the end of the year.

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 677006)

I did not go on and not one told me an accurate figure... I said likely 110-115, you said something that I ignored lol. Where did I go on? Every single time you say anything to me, your wrong.

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 677009)

You're missing the point. Yes, he has built a pretty impressive resume thus far. I have no issue with anyone saying he's the best 3yo this year, because he is. But he's the best of a bad bunch, just like Big Brown was in 2008. He's done very little to say historically he stacks up in my opinion.

Seriously, just looking at the 4 you highlighted- Lookin at Lucky would get crushed by all of them.

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 676987)

Here are the winners of the Haskell the last 20 or so years and you tell me where you would rank him amongst them.
Lookin At Lucky
Rachel Alexandra
Big Brown
Any Given Saturday
Bluegrass Cat
Roman Ruler
Lion Heart
Peace Rules
War Emblem
Point Given
Dixie Union
Menifee
Coronado's Quest
Touch Gold
Skip Away
Serena's Song
Holy Bull
Kissin Kris
Technology
Lost Mountain
Restless Con
King Glorious
Forty Niner
Bet Twice

One word answer.
LAST

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 677010)

Who cares what a "resume" looks like?

What are LAL's best races?

The Haskell? Where he beat a hard luck 2nd place finisher Trappe Shot who was coming off of a 2.5 length win over Nacho Friend in a 4 horse field.

The 3rd place finisher First Dude is 1-for-9 and has one of the nicest resume's ever for a horse who still has his N1X allowance condition.


Or maybe you prefer Lookin at Lucky's 102 Beyer Preakness win - where he beat such wonderful competition as First Dude (great resume for an N1X'er!) Jackson Bend (0-for-6 this year and 5th in the Pegasus most recently) Yawanna Twist was 4th beaten less than 2 lengths in the Preakness - and he's yet to win anything other than a NY Bred MSW and NY Bred N1X, both at 6fs on the Inner dirt at AQU.

Originally Posted by philcski (Post 676987)

Here are the winners of the Haskell the last 20 or so years and you tell me where you would rank him amongst them.
Lookin At Lucky
Rachel Alexandra
Big Brown
Any Given Saturday
Bluegrass Cat
Roman Ruler
Lion Heart
Peace Rules
War Emblem
Point Given
Dixie Union
Menifee
Coronado's Quest
Touch Gold
Skip Away
Serena's Song
Holy Bull
Kissin Kris
Technology
Lost Mountain
Restless Con
King Glorious
Forty Niner
Bet Twice

One word answer.
LAST

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane (Post 677016)

My point is that he would join those four in winning both premier Summer races.
I didn't say he stacks up to the four in question but for you to say "one word answer, LAST" I'm pretty confident he's closer to those four than at least seven others on the list are to him. He is in the process of developing as all 3yo's are and once in a while it's refreshing to see a top 2yo continue on to a competitive season.

Lost Mountain? Please

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 677025)

Lost Mountain won the race with a 107 Beyer and the next out Travers 1-2 finishers were second and third to him. It's not like his Haskell performance would have left him smoked by todays winner.

Here's a 3-year-old who went 3-for-11 .... Captain Steve.



He took on older horses in the Ky Cup, Goodwood, and Breeders Cup Classic - and beat every single one of them. The older Golden Missile was 2nd to him in the KY Cup with the Hollywood Gold Cup winner 3rd. Fellow 3yo Tiznow beat him in the Goodwood and fellow 3yo's Tiznow and Giant's Causeway beat him in the BC Classic. In fact, 3yo Albert The Great was 4th in that years Breeders Cup Classic after winning the JCGC with a 119 Beyer against olders in his prior start.

If you go 30 horses deep ... that 3yo crop of 2000 crushes any I've seen since. It's tough to put together a great resume when the opposition you face doesn't suck.

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane (Post 677030)

Ok so you're using Lost Mountain's 107 beyer as proof of his historic comparison to LAL ?

Originally Posted by dalakhani (Post 677028)

Counting Fupeg, 5 of the top 6 from that classic were three year olds. In the distaff, three of the top four were 3 year olds and War Chant won the mile.

More than ready, El corredor, left bank, lido palace.

That was a great year. One could make the case that the older horses sucked that year though. I can only remember LDK being any good.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 677032)

It's proof enough that the Lookin At Lucky's who won the Haskell wouldn't have smoked the Lost Mountain who won the Haskell.




They simply determine how fast a horse ran in said race in relation to the speed of the race track. Sinister Minister was never a good horse - but he would have beat the ever loving piss out of Lookin At Lucky if LAL faced him in his 13 length Grade 1 Blue Grass win over an extreme inside speed track.

Bluegrass Cat was beaten 21+ lengths in that Blue Grass - and he ran 2nd in the Derby and Belmont in his next two starts, before winning the Haskell by 7 lengths and ending his career with a 2nd in the Travers.

Strong Contender was beaten 17+ lengths in that Blue Grass - and he came back and later took the Dwyer by 8 and beat Lawyer Ron in the Super Derby.

Wild Syn - who was pathetic beyond belief - went wire-to-wire from the rail in a different edition of the Blue Grass and two well beaten horses came back and ran 1st and 2nd in the Ky Derby three weeks later. That's Keeneland.

Bellamy Road's 17.5 length Grade 1 win Wood number wasn't wrong either - and unlike Sinister Minister his performance wasn't a fluke caused by a crazy bias. Scrappy T. was 3rd by 18+ and took a Grade 3 at 7/1 next out followed by a 2nd place finish in the Preakness.

If you think Lookin at Lucky wins that Wood Memorial if he was entered that day - you're a total clown.

Resumes that are put together against real nice N1X alw horses like First Dude, or the 0-for-forever Jackson Bend, or tough luck Trappe Shot in his Graded Stakes debut would look a lot better if the figures weren't so weak.

Freaking Milwaukee Brew ran a 110 Beyer when he was 3rd in the Haskell - and he was what - like the 37th best 3yo to race that year?

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane (Post 677037)

Simply place the number next to each horse and leave it at that. Don't bother explaining who ran behind LAL because the number is the determining factor.

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane (Post 677030)

Ok so you're using Lost Mountain's 107 beyer as proof of his historic comparison to LAL ? Then I see the pps of a horse who's not even on the list in question. Who by the way looked like a tough customer.

I get that. Some horses are born in the wrong year. But often their measure of talent can be exaggerated because of who they faced just as a horse like
LAL's ability is downgraded because of who he has been beating. There is a median in there somewhere and Beyer numbers aren't the end all in determining how good a horse is. If they were Sinister Minister or Bellamy Road would be household names.

I wouldn't mind seeing Lost Mountain's pps. I bet him in the Derby.

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane (Post 677037)

Ok so back to the list in question. If Phil ranked LAL last on that list and did so along the lines of what you are saying, using the beyer number for that given race as the determining factor of how a horse would "rank" among others, not so much how a horse would rank historically among those same horses, then I have no argument.

Simply place the number next to each horse and leave it at that. Don't bother explaining who ran behind LAL because the number is the determining factor.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin (Post 677024)

I would probably rank him a little below average on that list but I certainly wouldn't rank him last.

His performance today surprised me. I thought he was the horse to beat but I thought it was a competitive field. I thought he deserved to be the favorite but I thought he should have been the 5-2 favorite, not the 6-5 favorite. I was totally wrong. He blew them away. He won like a 6-5 shot.