18 months down, 30 to go...
 

The countdown until Obama the Destroyer leaves office.

Yeah, I know, it's that depressing.

That's not what's depressing

Ummm....between the choices the USA had.....he was easily the better choice.

??

As crazy as Palin is... Biden ain't too much better... they are basically a wash, though the slight edge goes to Biden.

I have no clue how anyone, even a liberal, could say that Obama was "easily the better choice" than McCain. McCain had more knowledge & experience about government and military in his pinky finger than Obama knew in 2008.

i think many of our choices for president the last few elections have been a huge disappointment. we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world-we had a choice of bush vs gore...bush vs kerry, and then mccain vs obama. that's the shame of it. i don't think it matters who won these last three votes, we were screwed either way.

I would say the mediocrity of our candidates comes from most of them arriving on the national scene from the same path.

As an aside, why do so many people care that/if we are the "greatest country in the World"? In a lot of ways we are, but in a lot we aren't. So what?

i'm just saying that if we are the greatest, why can't we get the greatest people to run it? we can't be great if we're run by mediocrities.

You don't? Well, if a person is liberal on social issues, and liberal on economic issues, wouldn't Obama be the better choice for them? It isn't like it is just a job where you compare CVs and see who is the most qualified/experienced. I would vote for a one-term state representative from a rural district in Idaho over Mitch McConnell if the Idaho person shared my basic set of values.
Does McConnell have more "knowledge and experience?" Of course. But that doesn't mean he fits my definition of a good president.

The same holds true for people of the other side. Did millions of Republicans vote for Mike Huckabee instead of McCain in the primary because they thought he had more knowledge and experience? Of course not. They voted for him because they figured he loved Jesus and hated minorities as much as they did....(or whatever their particular reasons may have been).

I've never understood that either. It is the stupidest, most made-up title imaginable.

The President can only do so much..It's just the luck of the draw who happens to be in office during upswings and down swings. I personally think Reagan was a buffoon who was in the right place at the right time. Others say the same about Clinton. Ultimately, that's why I always vote for for a Liberal...the economy will swing back and forth almost imhune to who is Prez, but the Social issues ultimately controlled by the Supreme Court and by judges appointed by the President are what I want to affect.

I dont know about others, but I am extremely proud to live in the "greatest country in the world". which it is, hands down.

no matter who in charge is screwing up the country, whether Repub, Dem, or Ross Perot, I will always have great pride in being an American.

The best thing that has ever happen to any one of us was being born in the land of the free & the home of the brave.

and for the question of "So What?" Many of our ansestors have fought til the death to give us our freedoms. Our country was founded for the greatest reasons and sets of ideals that have ever been known to man kind. That is the So What for me.

Lori...most of the World is the land of the free and the home of the brave..and with a lot more years of bravery to back them up. I disagree that's it's the best thing that ever happened to you, although that's your right to feel that way.

I feel really bad for immigrants to this country, or people who live in some other country....I guess they have to decide for themselves what the best thing to ever happen in their life will be. All of us who were born here don't have that pesky problem. We had the best thing that will ever happen to us happen in the very first second of our life.
:rolleyes:

can you list a few of these countries that are better than the USA?

England? if they were so great we wouldnt have fought so hard to succeed from them.

France? If it wasnt for the USA, there would have been no more France in the 1940's.

I guess if you agree with socialism over capitalism, and think the reason to work hard is to be taxed hard, then yes, there are better countries out there.

i'm sure that the people born in South America, Africa, Asia, the middle East, Russia & parts of western Europe were all so lucky to be born there.

Go ahead and keep taking for granted all the opportunities we have here. Its not a big deal.. most people these days take it all for granted.

I have the bottle of champagne chillin for 2 1/2 more years

Are you serious with this? I've rarely read a post where I honestly considered responding with every single available emoticon.

and there is no way that most of the world is the land of the free and the home of the brave.

If you would have said most of Europe.. I'd agree. Europe and the USA / Canada make up a pretty small chunk.

I'm dead fucl<ing serious.

And I am not at all ashamed of my pride for America.

But what defines "better". I mean..gay rights? Um..not the US. Health Care..um..not the US. For me..Gun Control..not the US...Pro Choice...not the US,..Seperation of Church and State..not the US..Genocide on the Indians...there you go...US. I mean, these are random examples, and the US is a great country, but it's far down the list of reasons of the best things that ever happened to me.

If you think it is the best country in the world, that's fine. But you have to admit that the logic of "the U.S. is better than England, because if it wasn't why did the colonists secede from there," is a bit ridiculous. By that logic....wouldn't the Confederate States of America be better than the United States of America for the four years it existed? If you want to argue that the U.S. is better than France & England....fine. But those were stupid examples.

If you think it is the best, fine. But what REALLY makes you say that? Look up some information on.....oh I don't know.....I'll say.....Denmark. Then compare it to the U.S. and get back to me. What kind of rights do their citizens have? How happy are the people? How affluent are they? Who has the better education system? etc. Whatever matters most to you. Then really ask yourself, which is the "better" country? In some ways, probably the U.S. In other ways, probably Denmark.

Gay rights is a fairly new thing in this world.. & it wont be long until America is on the correct page with a lot of Europe on that.

Health Care.. thats a difficult topic. I'll take our doctors and hospitals with my insurance that I receive from working over any other countries health care system out there. The brightest minds in the world practice health care in the USA.

Gun Control.. personal opinions on that one.. I'm happy with the amendment on it.. though I do not believe the gang back in the 1700's new that we'd have fully automatic assualt rifles in the future.. and I agree with you about those types of weapons.

We have more of a Seperation of Church and State than people believe. Its probably the least thing to worry about. Though personally I'm down for a seperation of church and life.

Genocide on the Indians? I have no excuses for that, it is a disgusting part of our history that is rarely talked about.

Subsitute Denmark for almost any other European country, many Asian countries, some South African Countries, maybe a South American country or two and Canada and you have the same answer...sometimes US, sometimes not.

U.S is better than England for tons of reasons. The history of England is very nasty. The United States, for all the hating on Bush and the war in Iraq, has been by far the most compassionate superpower in world history. That is something we should be proud of.

Denmark / Sweden on average, have MUCH hotter women.. so I'll give them that ;)

[ but it's far down the list of reasons of the best things that ever happened to me.[/quote]

1' white sox
2' packers
3' horses
4 'tequila
5' scavs texing leftovers.
6 STRUT !!:tro:

It just always seems odd to me that so many people have a pathological need to feel their country is "the best." It just seems weird.

I went to the University of Missouri for my undergrad. I loved it. I met the best friends of my life there. I think it is a great university. I cheer like hell for their sports teams every year, and own a bunch of Mizzou "gear." I guess I'm "proud" to be a Tiger. But I don't always feel the need to go around saying it is the best university in the world. I don't think alums of any other school do either. I'm not sure why it isn't like that with countries. People want to be proud....hey go ahead. But don't tell me what the best thing to ever happen to me is. I think I'll decide that for myself.

1' white sox
2' packers
3' horses
4 'tequila
5' scavs texing leftovers.
6 STRUT !!:tro:[/quote]

1 and 2 are interchangeable, 3 is now 23, 4 is between you and me and 6 may be 1 at this point in time.

thnx bro;)

Turn back the clock 40 years or however old you are. And have your seed planted in a village in India. Or any country in Africa. Or Mexico. You'd be begging to have been born in the USA.

comparing countries to universities & pride is freaking hilarious. When people start fighting and dying for the University of Arizona, then maybe your analogy would make the tiniest bit of sense.

Alright...philosophical...would you rather have been born in the US with CP confined to a wheel chair or been born healthy in Mexico. I know which I would pick. And this is only because you are saying it's the best thing that ever happened to you.

I assume you do realize that the fact that people DON'T fight and die for universities illustrates MY exact point.

if you are unfortunate enough to be born with CP, than US would be the best place to try to live your life.

thats a tough question.

I guess I'd rather be born in Mexico with a functional body.. and than illegally immigrate into Tucson & sell blow and pot.

are you saying people dont die and fight for countries?

No, of course not. Patriotism is one of the biggest killers in the world. It is right up there with religion.
You missed the point entirely.

NASCAR in 3-2-1

So being born with a "functional body" is a better thing to happen to someone than being born in the U.S.? Are you retracting your earlier statement?

I really did miss the point. I've even re-read the post a few times and just cannot figure out the point. Much too complicated for my Pac-10 education.

:tro:

considering Cerebral Palsy is one of the worst disorders a human can have.. sure.. you win. :zz:

The point is....why can't people just be "proud" of their country the way they are of their school....or their city....or whatever else? Why do they have to take it to the level of declaring it "the best" in such an emphatic way. I'm not just talking about Americans here either. This would be a much better world if nobody loved their country enough to kill another person for it. I love Mizzou and "hate" Kansas and their fans. But nobody (usually) gets killed over those disputes.
Obviously this is purely phisophical and completely outside the realm of actual possibility but honestly, nobody should love their country - any country - so much that they not only are willing to kill someone else over it, but also think it is a great and noble thing. If patriotism vanished from the world entirely, and took religion with it, the world would be a better place.