Doubt They Run at SA.. UPDATE: Charles says synthetic out..
 

It's only been raining here for one day and it already looks like they're going to cancel the races today. It's supposed to rain every day this week until Friday so I don't know how they'll be able to run at all until at least Saturday or Sunday.

Thank Goddness they have Pro ride??

I dont know why they are thinking they cant run on it , they havent even been out on it .

The "all weather" track pitch is a complete fraud.. perpetrated by some savvy snake oil salesmen to a few ignorant people.

I can't agree with that. It's worked at almost every other track. Hollywood Park takes the rain great. Golden Gate takes it great. They botched the job at Santa Anita. Just because they botched the job at SA, that's not an indictment against all of the "all-weather" tracks.

Its not a fraud , it works at other tracks , the freaking nimrods that installed the "drainage" system with that crap material when it was first laid down screwed it up. Either way still better than the old track and watching horses die EVERYDAY.

Keep on drinking the kool-aid...

The Santa Anita problems appear to be limited to that site.

Honu has ridden there every day for at least the past 6-7 years. I think she knows what she's talking about.

In addition, the synthetic track has been a huge success at Arlington. Ask any of the Chicago people on this board. Field size is way up at Arlington and the number of breakdowns has gone way down. Poly has been a huge success at Arlington.

The jockeys enjoy falling on it as well.

Exaggerate often?

NT

Did you ever consider that if they rebuilt a dirt surface are installed propper drainage, created a world class base, and maintained it correctly that it could be as safe and as well received by the industry?

The above makes great sense, obviously - but track supers have had decades to do that, and it apparently never crossed anybody's mind to do so. Why not?

And ever after synthetic tracks have been around, and the above suggestion has been made - track supers of dirt tracks still don't do it. I guess they feel their tracks are fine, settle down fine after a winter and are initially groomed and gotten into shape for the first meet?

For example, New York - all the freezing and thawing and heaving the base must undergo on the outer every winter - but come spring they never pull back the cushion, check the base and correct any holes.

Ron Charles was just on HRTV saying an announcement about the future of Santa Anita's surface will be coming very soon.

He did say that the current surface would likely be removed at the end of the meet. Here Here!

Didn't I read a while ago that up to 1,000 horses run and train over that surface every day ?

From what I have heard and read the NY tracks have been extremely well maintained this year?

Anyway what I am questioning is IF they spent 10 mil or whatever they spent rebuilding SA on a new dirt surface with todays technology.. It just might be much better then Pro Ride.. Again I really could care what they run on as long as its safer for the horses and riders.. I have NEVER heard from anyone that Rubber is safer then Dirt.
Look if you are Gill and you send out every laimo in the world at any level for them to race it doesnt matter if they ran on goose down they would die

Does anyone know if SA would have to get permission from the CHRB to go back to dirt? If so, would that petition be public?

Well, we're gonna see for sure, when they take the Pro-Ride out and reinstall dirt with "today's technology".

I imagine the whole base and drainage system has to go. Dirt track. From scratch, ground up.

From what I've heard, that won't be an issue. They will be allowed to put in dirt if they want to.

To be fair I am not sure what goes into building a safe surface.. I'm guessing that a surface that was built in 1920 isn't the way they would do it today?

Hopefully "the Bykster" will be able to get Ron Charles or Hammerle on ATR this evening to talk about it. I'll be listening to the archives later tonight.

Who is paying for this? Breeders Cup? Didn't know they had such funds available. Suit against Pro-Ride? Who are they going to sell the surface to? (training center, etc)

What did they just do at Gulfstream? Anybody know? Fluff up the top layers?

I do know that, aside from the surface, the turn radius, the steepness of banks (inclines), and flatness effects obviously speed, and that effects injuries (the faster they go, the more they blow apart). I know with Keeneland they changed the incline of the turns when they installed Polytrack.

I agree with you. If any of these tracks spent $10 million on a state-of-the-art dirt track (with a brand new base), I think it would be just as safe as a good synthetic track. I would actually prefer a good dirt track over a good synthetic track.

The only advantage of a synthetic track (with the exception of Santa Anita) over a dirt track is that they normally hold up great to rain and they don't have to be sealed like dirt tracks. Those sealed, rock-hard, sloppy tracks are really dangerous. I would actually much rather if they did not seal the tracks. The problem if they don't seal them is that they get really muddy and they end up getting a ton of scratches.

And as this development about the surface switch goes on...Barry Abrams is in panic mode

Why? He can still run in a Mdn Spl early on the card and come back in winners later on in the day..lol

Santa Anita will have to pay for it. I don't know how they'll come up with the money but they'll have to find a way. They can't have a track that runs in the winter that has to cancel racing every time it rains.

They can't sue Pro-Ride. Pro-Ride didn't do anything wrong. It was Cushion-Track that put in the track and botched the job. Pro-Ride came in there and tried to fix it and had only limited success. To totally fix it, I think they will have to totally re-do the drainage system and/or the base.

By the way, they can't sue Cushion Track because Cushion Track went bankrupt.

The other 3 major tracks in California will stay synthetic.

other 3?

Hol has a fine surface.

DMR - that is the worst of the three to handicap, its all over the map.

I meant Hollywood, Del Mar, and Golden Gate. Del Mar was a mess this past meet. They are finally going to bring in a new guy there. They just fired Steve Wood. I am hopeful that the track will be better this coming meet.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/110190.html

You got a mention on TVG today by the way... "Is Travis Stone calling LaD quarters this meet?" "No, he's working in some capacity at Gulfstream"

I can understand removing the existing surface to correct the drainage problems within the current base. One would think it would be more cost effective to correctly upgrade the drainage at SA than to remove the entire track and install dirt.

I would think that either way they would have to remove the track to fix the drainage.

You may be right . I do not know the specifics of that drainage problem.

Arlington Park has a nice cross-section of their track make up on display. It was pretty cool, though I may have been the only one that ever looked at it.

All the payoffs have been made to those who had their hands out from the CHRB people down... Even though they "mandated" synthetics 3 years ago... the CHRB won't stop SA from going to conventional dirt now.

You are right I should have said , dying more often and seeing the horse ambulance out everday.

Could the synthetic out be also in hopes of becoming the permanent spot of the Breeder's Cup?

You're right, yeah, that was Cushion Track that started at SA. Breeder's Cup may be paying for some of it? Again, but they don't have money, either - especially with foal nominations down.

Wonder if SA saved it's old cushion - they had it set aside, what did they end up doing with it?