Thoro-Graph year-end free data promo & Q/A thread
 

Reminder that again this year, Jerry Brown and the staff at Thoro-Graph are happy to reward their customers, and possible new TG users, with free data the last week of the year. If you don't have a Thoro-Graph account, sign up for one (costs nothing) and you can download all figures 12/26-12/31 free.

It's an outstanding opportunity to utilize the data and get a chance to learn how sheet figure methodology works and can help you identify possible overlays and underlays based on performance figure patterns.

The last couple of years, we have kept a "TG new user" thread open to help those that are curious about the info and how to apply it to their handicapping and play. Feel free to ask about Thoro-Graph figs, patterns and their methodology here, and any of the TG users here will be happy to try to help answer them...

THORO-GRAPH

This is a great freebee!

Thanks!

Thoro-Graph vs. Ragozin
 

What's the basic difference between the Thoro-Graph and Ragozin number?

I know there is a difference in the methodology, but the Ragozin system seems to emphasize the actual distance that a horse ran and the race conditions on that day.

(I typically use Beyer figures or Equibase ratings in handicapping).

I thought they use the same premise. Just one was the teacher and the other the student?

Correlation
 

These numbers don't seem to correlate from race to race though. One number goes higher from Race 1 to 2 while the other is lower.

It seems like there is much more variability in the Thoro-graph figure as compared to the Ragozin number from race to race.

huh?

TG numbers tend to be tighter than Ragozin numbers. They are FAR more prone to splitting variants and cutting races loose.

I've only started looking at the Thoro-Graphs vs Ragozins so I'm basing what I see on a limited number of races. I don't want to spread any falsehoods!!!

Thanks for the insight......

Keith,

While my experience is heavily skewed towards Thor-Graph, the methodologies are very similar. Both take ground loss most seriously in their figure making, and Thoro-Graph considers weight a great deal. TG also will factor windy days into figures.

As Doug mentions above, Jerry Brown at TG is very quick to acknowledge changes in conditions over the course of a day, and will split variants. He will not force numbers on races just so they fit with everything else over the course of the card.

I'm not saying one is better than the other.

Like Steve just said - they both use the same adjustments for weight, the same adjustments for ground loss, I would assume the same data for wind corrections .. the difference between the two is in the days race track variant.

Ragozin is far less likely to split variants or cut races loose.

I don't prefer either method.

On a very tough day to make numbers - I might write down in my trip notes something like "Tough day for figure making. this figure might be as high as a 79 .. could be as low as 71." On an easy day I'll put "Easy day for making figs. cut and dry figure of 62 for winner"

The commerical figure makers have to come up with one number - because they're selling ... and you don't see any indicators of how easy or tough a day it was to make numbers.

Speed figures are an amazing tool for comparing horses from circuit-to-circuit and comparing horses from different time periods.

However, they're a sometimes very overrated betting tool - unless you have great strength in all other areas of handicapping and good analytical skills... they won't help you win by themselves.

I am analytical and like using numbers, but it seems to me that Thoro-Graph and Ragozin are better for telling what a horse's capability is on a given day.

I'm more comfortable just using Beyers numbers and recent workouts to determine what a horse is likely to run on that day.

I guess I just need more experience using these other handicapping tools.

Thanks again.....

Whether you like the figs, or not, they are worth using for the Trainer and Sire stats.

Thats a good deal. I will have to read the tutorial on how use them

imo t-graph truely rates the racing ability of the horse. take advantage of this offer.

Combined the TG holiday threads with Q/A's from last 3 years. Promo starts with Wednesday's great Boxing Day action!

Steve -

Looking back 3 years ago, although I had many questions then, I am now a permanent Thoro-Graph user !!!

I would love to give it a week trial before deciding if I can use in my handicapping tools. Not sure if this offer is still good, and how to sign up to receive the week trial. I sign up on the TG site as a user but dont know the next steps to get the info.

Kid..

Once registered, click on the "BUY TG DATA" tab in upper left column.

An order graphic appears that then let's you pick date you want to see and the track you're selecting. The Sheets are full individual pages and Thoro-Quick are more abbreviated but in some ways easier to grasp. To get a feel for things overall, start with the RACE OF THE WEEK (The Malibu) info that explain methodology and gives a written synopsis of the horses in the race and what their figures say about their development and likelihood for success in the race.

Check back here if you have any trouble or other questions... But this should get you going.

Keith..

That's great. I'll pass that on to Jerry as he does this more to thank existing users than to develop new ones. As I've said repeatedly and obviously agree, between the performance figs and Sire/Trainer Stats, the info is invaluable.

Thank you for the info. I'm going to give it some serious thought to learn the figures. If there is any other links to better understanding there use, please send it over this way. I'm going to check TGs site for any content they have 1st. Thanks again!! Merry XMAS!! :D

Had to have been 6 or 7 years ago this promotion turned me into a regular user.

Well worth taking advantage of it.

And just look at you now!

free
 

i cant get it to work could u give me a readers digest version thanx its free right

Just downloaded tomorrows cards. It worked.

You have to first pic a day, then a track and double click all races as if you're ordering them. They'll show up in your cart with zero balance, check out and decide whether you want to open files or save them.

If that doesn't work return to your readers digest and wait for school to get out. Then just ask any kid over ten to help you and that should do it. ;)

:rolleyes::D

Thoro-Graph and Santa Anita 2013 Calendar.
 

Steve Byk and Rick Hammerle,
Happy New Year!!
Want to thank you both for free Thoro-Graph and Calendar.
Wishing you both the best of health and prosperity in 2013.
Received my calendar today, another beauty.
Stephen Yelich

Stephen,

Thanks and you're more than welcome. Enjoy the calendar and 2013 in good health and use the TG to cash going into New Year's!

Warm regards,
Steve

TG is a great product. Its grand that they give their customers a free promotion at the end of the year. $5/race or $25 a card is a little too steep to use regularly. I wish they would provide a subscription service like DRF.

I agree once you use them you feel handicapped w/o them.

The lower they price their product, the less effective it will be

So the inverse of that is if they increase the price of their product, the more effective it will be.

yes....

If they raise the price, I assume fewer people will purchase the info.

The price of TG has been stable for an extended period, but in fact, they have added more and more info (like Thoro-Trends) for that static price. Compared to the more expensive Ragozin product, which has no bonus info to it, Thoro-Graph is grossly under-priced.

I use it in all my capping and consistently find as many winners -- or bet againsts -- from the Trainer, Sire and Trend stats as I do the performance figures themselves.

Other than the price - do they both try to apply the same methodology?

More or less... Jerry Brown started with Ragozin and then went out on his own which is why there had been such animosity between the organizations. Ground loss and weight are the major factors folded in to the figs. TG also will note wind influences.

The point I was trying to make....and obviously, doing a very poor job at it, was that I was happy they did not lower the price as the poster suggested. When I'm not playing fixed odds on an exchange I'm playing against YOU. If I have these sheets and you don't because you don't want to pay the price I have an advantage and the sheets become more effective.

I think they are underpriced.....

thx Steve

What is the "diamond" symbol next to the TG number mean? I could not find an explanation of it in the tutorial.

The diamond represents the race was on a Synthetic racetrack.

Bringing this back to the front page for TG's annual free data giveaway..

Register and receive Thoro-Graph free between 12/26-12/31.

Myself and other TG users here happy to answer questions about the figs and data and how to use it..

In step #4, when downloading is there any reason the boxes are different colors?:zz: