Will Ghostzapper..
 

ever be as good a sire as his brother?

http://secure3.werkhorse.com/enicks/...NERS_11-23.pdf

No

Not unless Linda Rice gets a bunch and runs them in Turf sprints.

If he has to settle for being a significantly better racehorse it's not all bad.

That being said, his first crop has been a tad disappointing.

NT

Maybe true, but based on what expectations? I sure as heck wasn't expecting him to toss a bunch of 6f sprinters. I think when they start getting to two turns you will see different numbers

I wonder how Ghostzapper would have done had he been trained by Linda Rice and not Robert Frankel...5 1/2 turf sprint champion? What could have been...

I kind of expected him to throw more first crop winners than the likes of Offlee Wild and Ministers Wild Cat.

I hope his progeny get better with distance.

NT

His babies are:

3 for 11 routing
4 for 12 on the grass

I'm not quite ready to give up on him.

City Zip was a damn good racehorse too... probably Carson City's best. Of course... when your brother is the best of a generation, you're always the redheaded stepchild.

I'm not concerned about his babies yet though.

I think City Zip is the best deal at stud. (10k)

I'd probably take Fupeg at 15k in 2010 over CZ at 10k.

I'd take CZ at 10k in a second though over the again drastically reduced fee for Forestry, who will now stand for 17.5K

Indian Charlie for 70k, a 5k drop, is probably the best bargain out there still, of course.

Interesting that Empire Maker dropped to 50k.

table didn't come out too good but he ranks very high in all categories in his group (>$7,500 and less than $20k.)
I like him a lot as well.

Why in the world would you take Fu Peg over CZ?
I think Fupeg is gonna be a decent broodmare Sire...but other than that what has he accomplished in the shed?

Indian Charlie for 70k is O.k.
But If you can afford 70k...you might as well go to Distorted Humor for 100k.

Advertised stallion fees are a complete joke. Who cares what the advertise at?

How many Fu Peg's are there between the USA/Euro and Australia 12 mil? Remember the first crop I think they averaged 500k at Keeneland..lol

Is the advertised stud fee always paid on live foal... or are there ever any concessions or negotiations?

Tons, there is all sorts of agreements that can be made.

Almost all breeding agreements are stand and nurse now also

Forestry blows. He should stand for free with the amount of money he's burned up.

Fupeg? Seriously? City Zip has 6 stakes winners this year with 14 stakes wins, Fupeg has 4 with 5 wins. His one 2009 graded win was the Derby Mexicano (no joke.) City Zip is ahead of him in every category.

'Zapper was a freak under a mile when he began his career so a bit of speed wouldn't have been a surprise. When you consider his Vosburgh and his Tom Fool, you don't think of him siring colts that win at 8.5f on turf.

Being by Awesome Again out of a Relaunch mare does not really scream Turf Sire.

However, City Zip is by Carson City out of the same Relaunch mare and he throws plenty of turf and Poly runners.:confused:

Tons of significant races at 7f on the turf Ann? He stood for 300 balloons winning at 6.5 on the lawn doesnt seem a goal of many of those 500k plus yearling AY?

I've seen at leas a few fupegs that showed great potential. Including one that debuted not too long ago that is the most impressive debut by a 2yo I've seen this year. He's also sired some superstar down in Australia, as well as Roman Ruler, who's off to a decent start at stud.

CZ though? Yeah, he's proving to be pretty useful, but I doubt you'll see anything too great from him.

Distorted Humor is about the only stallion, last time I checked, that really moves mares up like IC.

Yeah, Forestry does suck. I can't believe the hype that he got.

I'll grant you Fupeg has been a disappointment, but he's a lot more capable of getting the big horse. Haradasun made close to 2 mil in Australia/Europe for instance. Who are the biggest names for CZ? Gleam of Hope?

The real joke is Smarty Jones

His percentages are good, he's had 40 winners from 69 runners... just hasn't had a big one yet. I would refrain from calling him a joke yet, but there's no question his stud fee started off too high (but I think everyone knew that but paid it anyways.)

He really doesn't have a big name, but a ton of bangers which for $10k I think is what you're expecting. His highest earner, Get Serious, is the type of horse I'd expect his top to be with the book of mares he's had.

Dynaformer moves up mares.. Stormy Atlantic moves up mares. All the stallions that started low and go higher move up mares. Smart Strike moved a ton of mares to the friggin moon. I think he started at 20k..

Forestry = Discreet Cat

Yeah, I realize other stallions move mares up, but when looking at the numbers, I think DH was the only one that moved up mares more than IC.

And IC got the worst books of mares imaginable for the first few years he stood at stud.

Relaunch was a turf horse, don't you remember? He won the Del Mar Derby and La Jolla Mile, placed in the G1 San Luis Rey. Sired some decent turf runners, too, like With Anticipation.

Indian Charlie is obviously a nice stallion.

Ok, so, like I'm totally bored and said, what the hey, why not compare FuPeg to City Zip myself. Here's what I found in the first stallion list I looked at.

Fupeg ranks 6th on the General Sire list with a hair under 9 mil in earnings this year.

CZ is 40th with 4.5 mil.

# of crops: Fupeg 6, CZ 5

# of starters: FP 394, CZ 168. Gotta be a dual hemisphere thing.

# of winner: 136 to 98.

Repeat winners: 51 to 40

Stakes winner: 4 to 6

GSW: 1 each

I have no idea how accurate the southern hemisphere stats are. I am pretty sure though that they are not complete, as I found an Aussie graded winner to go with the Mexican one.

I'm not really sure how Fupeg has 9 mil in earnings with stats like these, but after looking over those stats, I'd still go with him at 15k over CZ, especially since you have a chance at hitting a home run with him.

I'm surprised nobody on here has mentioned that filly of his that won recently, She's Funomenal, at HP.

I have no illusions about that filly staying sound or good for a long time, but still, that was a pretty impressive debut.

i dont think Mexican graded races are recognized

Why not? Italian ones are.

Because Hacker Craft could have been a graded winner in Mexico

They have slots in Mexico? Isn't the slaugter house in Mexico? If they have slots money it sounds like an ideal situation.

Not sure where you're getting the data, 2009 total earnings as per bloodhorse is $4,551,974 (CZ) versus $4,539,456 (Fupeg).
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-lists/general

On a cumulative basis (lifetime as a stallion): CZ has 344 foals, 256 starters, 196 winners, of which 184 were 2yo starters and 99 won as a 2yo;
FuPeg has 1086 foals, 560 starters, 323 winners, of which 311 were 2yo starters and 98 won as a 2yo.

In 2009: CZ has 171 runners, 100 winners, 41 repeat winners, 6 stakes winners of 14 stakes and 1 graded stake winner (Get Serious-G3 Red Bank.)
FuPeg has 308 runners, 118 winners, 54 repeat winners, 5 stakes winners of 8 stakes and 2 graded stakes winners... both not in the US/Canada/Europe (Vistoso-Mex G1 Derby Mexicano, Cats Whisker-Aus G2 Jayco Blazer S.)

I think it's undeniable that City Zip is just plain better than FuPeg and he stands for a third the price.

http://thoroughbredtimes.com/breedin...sire-list.aspx

I think that perhaps CZ is the more precocious of the two sires, but at 15k to 10k, yep, I'm sticking with fupeg.

While trying not to insult our friends from the South, thier racing and record keeping is a little spotty.

I guess that is where they get it from.

Makes sense..Broken Vow is by Unbridled, but out of a Nijinsky II mare.
Seems like his runners prefer the turf.

I haven't seen it posted elsewhere yet, little bro City Wolf has a ways to go in catching big bros. A well beaten 2nd today in his second start.