Bo Rail gets the boot on Mine that Bird
 

Can't fault the Bird's connections, Borel should have been given the Bird already. Lets face it, it is not like Borel is such a great rider that they should be at his whim with a horse of this quality and there are plenty of better riders who will commit to this horse. Good for Wooley and company for this move.

It's not everyday that a rider doesn't want a horse that finishes in the money in all 3 triple crown events. Wow.

FTFY

Per HRTV. Leparoux is now on Mine That Bird

definitely an upgrade

Thought it was Mike Smith?

right on! what rider is worth getting jerked around on. the horse is a major player with any jockey. people get carried away with the rider, the horse does the running its not like MTB is on borels back! plus, besides CD borel is pretty average!

Yeah, a horse that wins the Kentucky Derby and places in the Preakness and Belmont really can't by that good. Are you one of those that bets "Borail" on any horse he gets on? :rolleyes:

Chantal Sutherland - Casey Lambert - Calvin Borel - Mike Smith...

Horse hasn't had much luck with riders...what an average group.

what an average horse

This year? I think he's done more than to be considered an average horse. No one is in the league of Rachel Alexandra(my unbiased viewpoint) 'halo effect' or not.

yes, average horses always finish in the money in all three triple crown events.. including winning the main one...

Not a "great" horse... but far above average!

As horses who hit the board in all three triple crown races, a very nice achievement in itself, he is average. I dare you to name horses who have done that, that you would say are worse then he is...that makes him average relative to his paper record in my book.

I love it when people want to just read a post, they know the context it was used, but reply as if they dont. Its pretty obvious compared to the 5k claimer at River Downs he is exceptional, duh....but he is average historically compared to others with similar accomplishments. I would take it a step further and say he is average compared to the best horses in his generation, that would be horses like Zenyatta and Rachael Alexandra.

fine.. he is an average Kentucky Derby winner :rolleyes: ... and its half way through the 3yo season so he may turn out to be a top quality Kentucky Derby winner or just stay average.

While I think Rachel is a MUCH better racehorse... I'll wait til they run against each other a few more times to make up my mind.. there was only a length seperating them at the finish (though Rachel's trip was MUCH more taxing).

And while Zenyatta may be better than both.. I will not say that because she runs against chicken $hit every race and it cant be determined until she faces better competition.

I would like to see what Rachel Alexandra will do the rest of the year before calling her the best of her generation. As I said I think she is under what I would call as the 'halo effect'. Horseracing is just crying out for a superstar and there is no doubt she is the one they are looking at her with starstruck eyes. :rolleyes:

I am with you on waiting, but she just seems better then a horse like MTB under any circumstance. Zenyatta is a different story, she has overcome every setup to win in jogs from last place, no horse does that, look it up, even on turf.

Mine that Bird will let jugblowers and methheads around the heartland of America know that he is the people's choice after he wins the West Virginia Slots Derby.

That is usually a race dominated near the front end, mountaineer is one of the more speed biased tracks in the country, I actually find it a not very well thought out decision to run there.

Three of the last four winners have won from well off the pace. It all depends on if there's any speed, but Mnr is not as notoriously speed-favoring as Monmouth.

The purse is gigantic and the field is likely to be soft. That goes into the decision just as much as whether it fits his style.

NT

yes, its usually a weaker than the Haskell.

I guess it makes sense, the owners have a gelding and so its a money grab type move, and lets face it they are not Sheiks.

I actually have seen numbers that show Mntr as the 3rd most speed biased track in the country. I dont play there enough to know but trust where I got the numbers. Maybe different at night than day?

The big problem which probably makes Mountaineer seem to be such a speed biased track is the regularity with which horses drop in class who have speed. You see shippers from major tracks usually ship in dropping in class show up for Maiden 15K, Maiden 10K, and Maiden 5K there that are simply faster than the horses that are currently running for those tags at Mountaineer. You also see examples of horses since Mountaineer has many different class levels of 5K claimers such as 5K NW2L, 5K NW3L, 5K, NW4L, 5K NW1Y, 5K NW2Y, 5K NW3Y, 5K Open with a progression to Starter 5K Races, horses that are dropping in class from any of those levels to the next level down or anything below that have any pace at all are usually faster than their pace rivals and outpace them and make the track appear to be speed biased.

solid, that makes some sense, the numbers I have seen to not take the issues you raised.

Off the top of my head, Mane Minister certainly fits the bill...there's one.

Here's the list I think the last 20 or so years....

Mine That Bird
Curlin
Afleet Alex
Smarty Jones
Funny Cide
Charismatic
Real Quiet
Victory Gallop
Silver Charm
Free House
Thunder Gulch
Go For Gin
Mane Minister
Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Risen Star

Of those, I think Mane Minister is the only one you could for certain say is worse than MTB. Maybe Go For Gin?? But at this point through the Belmont, I don't think you can claim that one even. So your point is well taken...the last 21 years of those placing in all 3 TC races, I think you can find only 1 worse than MTB to this point.

thats debatable, but yea I guess they are on the same level in my mind.

You can't be serious. You hate MTB that much!!

12-3-0-5 ?? No, he's better than Mane Minister...not debatable.

It's too early to assume how good or not MTB is...let him finish out the year at least before comparing him to past horses who finished in the money in all 3 TC events

i don't know losing by a length and 1/2 when mike smith was blocked early. this horse is in everyones league and proved it by running in the money in all three races. i actually think he wins that race at 1 1/4 miles. the horses that are NOT in her league are the chumps they set her up against and she beats by 20! the three year old males are going to get bigger and better, some of the contenders have been racing for just a few months. shes out of her league with the fillies but i would not jump to any conclusions just yet, theres plenty of racing left this summer. curlin could not beat rags to riches in june, in october no one could touch him ! if MTB stays healthy along with Summer bird and some of the others this thing is far from being decided.

I was talking about natural talent, of course he has accomplished more by winning the derby.

Mane Minister was a lot like Mine That Bird in that he tweaked his running style for the Ky Derby.

MM set a solid pace in the Santa Anita Derby and faded out of the money - and next out rallied to finish 3rd at about 100/1 odds in the KY Derby.

Trivia, the horse who beat Mane Minister in his debut sired both parts of a post time favored entry in the Kentucky Derby .. name him.

General Meeting.

NT

Correct.

I just had to repeat that.:tro:

I'll say this much we may have not seen the best from Summer Bird, I actually thought he could have won by more if he were perfectly handled in the Belmont. In my opinion he will prove to be a better horse than Mine That Bird if he stays healthy.

You might be right that we haven't seen the best from him, but didn't he get a perfect trip in the Belmont?

Absolutely, positively yes.

NT

The trip Kent got winning the Suburban with Dry Martini reminded me in an abstract way of his win on Summer Bird in the Belmont. The meltdown in the former, was a lot easier to predict (at least for me), than the new role of pacesetter, and premature MTB, that we saw in the later...

I agree with what you're saying but note that Prado rode Dry Martini, and given Prado's patient style, the race played to his strengths.

NT

oops
 

Well, he was channeling Desormeaux. :o