Vindication..........
 

Is anyone as excited as me to see how his babies will run?

Much more interested in Gibson County....

In fact, I am excited about this years freshman sires. Empire Maker, Sky Mesa, Mineshaft, Harlans Holiday--man what a crew that is. I love it. I am pumped.

Three of those are the nuts..Harlan's Holiday, take it easy

I doubt Sky Mesa's will be sound. Anything with Pulpit is questionable. But Empire Maker and Mineshaft, they are going to throw some serious runners

I got to see Sky Mesa at Three Chimneys and that horse is a monster. It dwarfed Smarty Jones and was almost just as big as Pint Given. In fact, Sky Mesa was bigger than Albert The Great.

Big horses don't always necessarily make great stallions. Cozzene is pretty small, IIRC, and how's he been at stud?

Anything from Unbridled is questionable too when it comes to soundness.

Oh I know. I was just amazed at how big Sky Mesa was. The only time I saw the horse was when won at 2 at Keeneland. I was just a little shocked is all.

not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog...

Isnt that the truth and isnt that a shame as well.

they show you dynaformer when you were @ 3 chim.? THAT is a big horse--everything is big!

No dynaformer was in a different barn. We saw Albert The Great, Smarty Jones, War Chant, Sky Mesa, Point Given and Yes Its True. We were lucky enough to see War Chant breed. Boy that was something I dont ever want to see again.

I remember thinking how f'ing small Smarty looked when I saw his Belmont in person. I know horses obviously fill out after their 3YO seasons, but still, he was a pretty little guy.

You know Slot I was like Dang Smarty is small. I never saw him in person until I went to the farm. I was shocked to see how tiny he was. And man, he was grumpy as can be.

That right I forgot he's not in the main stallion shed...I think they keep him in a quieter setting. He has a bad reputation. He's 17 plus hands though and built like a brick sh*thouse, you know he's coming when it's his turn in the shed.

Yeah, they keep dynaformer, rahy and I think one other horse is a barn off to the side so they dont get so disturbed. But it was a great tour. I would suggest everyone to go see the farm.

Something about turning a racehorse into a stallion just kills whatever personality the horse may had before popping the proverbial you know what. I guarantee you Afleet Alex isn't using a jolly ball to keep him busy these days, if you catch my meaning.

did you see any of the other farms while you were there? Juddmonte is great. and of course you can't beat Ashford...you feel like you are in the UK.

The only farm I have been to is Three Chimneys. My grandmother lives in Lexington and everytime I go to visit her I drive through Versailles and I drive pass Ashford. That place is a monster. Gainsbrough is also one that I pass.

you should hit one farm every time you pass through. You won't regret it.

Well i'll put my neck out there and say that Sky Mesa will be the best of the bunch. Although, I do agree, if not bred to the right mares, soundness will come into play. He's a drop dead gorgous looking stallion though and a pedigree that compares to any around.

The short answer is.....yes. This horse had speed AND had a pedigree which suggested he would have been able to run all day, if he had made it to the longer 3yo races. By Seattle Slew and out of a graded stakes winning daughter of Strawberry Road, is pretty damn good.
Strawberry Road was at his best going 2000m - 2400m, where he won a number of G1s and G2s, and Seattle Slew was....well Seattle Slew. If bred to the right mares Vindication should be able to produce some quality classic-type horses, but he himself had enough speed to suggest his offspring might be versatile runners who could be good sprinters too. I don't think it will be long before he sires a G1 winner.

I hope you're correct and he certainly had the speed which is an important ingredient in being a successful stallion. I think the real key with him is going to be an introduction of as many lines of La Troienne as possible.

Vindication is tail-female to Adargatis, a daughter of Helene de Troie, which makes her a half to La Troienne. I know this linebreeding has been tried on numerous occasions and with very good success in quality. I believe, from a linebreeding perspective, this is the main key to his pedigree, along with the lines of Frizette and his lack of Mr. Prospector... he should do well with Mr. P line mares to bring an added Frizette line... arguably the main reason why Indy does so well with Mr. P mares.

Well, Harlan's Holiday IS a 3 time G1 winner who won graded stakes races at ages 2, 3, and 4 and is out of an Affirmed mare. He might not be up there with Mineshaft and Vindication, but I would not rule him out as a potentially good stallion.

I like ANY horse that lacks Mr. Prospector in his pedigree.

He's got a family to impress as well. The Princessnesian/Alanesian/Alablue clan is a classy one. Dont forget, Boldnesian was a product of this family and I firmly believe some families produce stallions, others just dont. I always like to see a proven stallion of top quality in the mix on the bottom side when looking at a stallion prospect.

He was bred to Silverbulletday in 2005.

Since we're discussing stallions, what do you guys think of this one?

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd...ion_no=4308090

Eventually, I will have a decent mare... eventually. LOL

Incidentally, Harlan's Holiday is just a fabulous looking animal. So is Medaglia D'Oro, for whatever that's worth.

Well I would say that a mare that won 12 graded stakes races at distances of 8.5 furlongs or farther might be the right kind of mare to prouduce a classic winner. A BC Juvenile winner bred to a BC Juvenile Filly winner huh? Remind me to put a little cash on that horse in his or her 2yo debut!!

I thought the same thing. :D

She had a dark bay filly... looks just like mama and dad.

His pedigree is ok for the regional market but I think there's better stallions in the Fl market for both racing and selling. With that said, i'd look for more lines of Pocahontas through Tom Rolfe, Chieftain, Alzao etc. It probably wouldnt hurt if he was sent some nice Notebook, Drone and Sir Wimborne mares to bring in more Cap and Bells.

I adored Slew, so I should be excited. I'm so/so on him. I'm much more excited about Mineshaft and Sky Mesa.

i'm looking forward to vindications...hopefully he'll be able to pick up where ap indy will leave off....after all, indy isn't getting any younger. would love to see another top sire by slew.

i went to three chimneys, and got to see war chant, rahy, point given, wild again and smarty...smarty looked like a quarter horse to me, but was far from grumpy. point given on the other hand had only one interest, his feed bucket. asked about slew o'gold, but they don't let anyone near him.

we also went to clairborne, which i thought was fantastic. we got a pic next to smarty, but at claiborne i got a pic of me petting monarchos! he's a sweet horse. seeking the gold on the other hand....yikes. pulpit was a good guy as well, and i was thrilled to see my 'namesake' danzig. i would suggest going to claiborne, a lot of history there.

i saw the picture of that sky mesa filly that went for a million...she's a beauty.

A colleague of mine is friends with the Squires family who bred Monarchos. I'm glad to hear that he was friendly. :D

it was amazing to me how laid back he was...like he's someones pet. very gentle and easy going. they only led him and pulpit out. seeking the gold, he warned us to stay back and he opened the top half of his stall door. my god, that horse is huge. and very, very aggressive. he knows he's the king of the place there. i also got to see arch, he's one i have high hopes for, and boundary.

[QUOTE
we also went to clairborne, which i thought was fantastic. we got a pic next to smarty, but at claiborne i got a pic of me petting monarchos! he's a sweet horse. seeking the gold on the other hand....yikes. pulpit was a good guy as well, and i was thrilled to see my 'namesake' danzig. i would suggest going to claiborne, a lot of history there.[/quote]


I have driven by Claiborne about a 100 times, never been there. I have to go to a wedding in Paris in September, did you have to make an appointment or did they have tours?

I have heard that Jazil is aggressive like that as well. I don't think I'd want to breed to a horse like that, but I guess personality isn't important in racing. :o

Eb....how much something like that run bro?