2/16 (OP): Southwest S. (Gr. III)
 

9th (5:02) Southwest S. (G3)

1 Mile | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $250,000

1 Retap Quinonez L S 117 L
2 Loch Dubh Court J K 117 L
3 Silver City Mena M 117 L
4 Gresham Borel C H 117 L
5 Old Fashioned Dominguez R A 119 L
6 Buzzin and Dreamin Ocampo I 115 L
7 Flat Out Garcia J A 119 L
8 Professor Z Emigh C A 117 L
9 Poltergeist Hamilton Q 117 L
10 Silver Bayer Thompson T J 115 L
11 Kick On Tohill K S 119 L

Oh yeah... Poltergeist. :tro:

(Thought I forgot something...)

Old Fanshioned Will be yough to beat. My Money is on Silver City since the 1 Mile at Oaklawn is 2 turns speed holds up pretty good. Poltergeist is where the smart money is going but he was an alright winner at 1st asking here in early Jan. I just don't think he's ready for the other two just yet.

If there be an upset..... second vote for silver city.... should handle the distance and calhoun needs a derby horse.... ..... hello!!!!!

Make it three....if anyone beats Old Fashioned, I think it's this guy.

After the top 2, Poltergeist and Flat Out are the next of interest. (And think about how much fun this race would have ben had Square Eddie been OK to go...)

I've gotten very attached to this Flat Out for no particular reason. Strikes me as this year's model of Golden Yank with Flat Out trainer Scooter Dickey = Yank's Gary Thomas...

I agree. It's tough to see past those four. Flat Out's done nothing wrong, and I'll try to get him into the exacta.

i'm using poltergeist and flat out in the contest, not that that has anything to do with real money. i like flat out, but also liked that poltergeist shaved a full second off of flat outs time at this distance. old fashioned of course is the obvious choice, but races like the fritchie show why you look to beat the fave, and sometimes do so!

i saw rachel alexandra won her race today as expected..

i think he may just reward you....i need to make sure i get home in time to watch this.

Silver City might be legit speed but he has to deal with not only Old Fashioned but cheap speed Professor Z.

I think Old Fashioned has enough class and ability to run well and win the race but the closers Flat Out and Polterguist will make this race interesting. Of the latter two I think Flat Out is the better of the two.

In light of all the BS that went on after Eight Belle's broke down I'm rooting for Larry Jones to have a big horse who wins TC races. So far Old Fashioned looks like he could be that horse. However it all depends if he's matured since running as a two year old. The works say yes, but if there's a race that he might be a bit short this one is it.

That being said I think he is the real deal and will run very well. I'm going to box him in an exacta with Flat Out and maybe a three horse box adding Silver City. I'm rooting for Old Fashioned as I can't think of a more deserving trainer having a big time horse for the Derby than Larry Jones.

I don't understand the universal love for Larry Jones. The dude is Marty Wolfson Lite. And Old Fashioned looks like quite the useful horse, but he got away with murder against nobody in the Remsen and coasted home as he should've. I'm reserving judgment.

Read the Footnotes /Second of June
 

Anyone see flashbacks of Second June/ Read the Footnotes. Greatest race ever but the horses were never the same. Old Fashioned better be able to rate, because if its a duel.....

In retrospect he probably ran against a bad field in the Remsen but he beat them the way a good horse should.

I know Marty Wolfson is a trainer who is very successful but I haven't followed him closely enough to qualify Larry Jones as Marty Lite.

I'm basing my judgement on Jones on the way he conducted himself after Eight Belle's broke down. He was straight forward and handled the situation and himself with dignity, honor, and a bit of humility. In addition he had PETA put out a half baked campaign against him which painted him as a bad guy. He presented himself and horse racing very well when everyone was bashing the sport in the weeks after that tragic breakdown.

We're going to find out about Old Fashioned in the next few months. Maybe he's good enough or maybe he's not. At least we're on the downside of February and the serious TC candidates will start letting us know that they have arrived.

What makes you call him Marty Wolfson Lite? It's one thing if you don't like Old Fashioned but that's a hard statement to back up.

In 25 years of training horses Jones has been suspended once for a clenbuterol positive last summer at Delaware. He has also not had a number of miraculous move-ups like Wolfson.

He didn't deserve to have to deal with most of the crap last year from Eight Belles going down but he handled it like a gentleman.

NT

Steve...like you I am very attached to Flat Out as well. Heard this was a very nice horse last fall at CD....Have a KY Derby Future from Wynn at 225-1!!! I just hope he finishes on his feet and continues to move forward.

wow, good luck!

I don't think he's the craziest pick by any stretch. He's done very little wrong, beat a few of these closing going a mile, and figures to have pace today. He's certainly capable of running in the 90's and has a post advantage over Poltergeist. OF is looking at a nifty setup today, but this guy is too if he runs his race.

Wow! I didn't see your post before posting in response to Steve... but he's bred to go a distance and closing going one mile at Oak in your first start around two turns... he could be any kind. Love the methodical works too.

Yeah, I went a little overboard, but I find it hard to have a ton of respect for anybody that's based in the land of make believe (Delaware). Plus it was a little fishy to me how Eight Belles transformed from mediocre allowance horse into superstar filly in like a month or two. Jones certainly seems like a nice guy, but I have a hard time believing he's Mr. Clean, and to say that he's "the most deserving trainer" of having a Kentucky Derby contender is weird.

I don't get into the "most deserving" crap. Especially when it comes to trainers.

If Old Fashioned wins today and looks decent it's safe to say Jones will be the most likely to have multiple contenders in the gate.

NT

I also don't dislike Old Fashioned, I'm just eager to see how he does as he climbs the competition ladder.

Superstar? She had 4 or 5 races in the 90's leading up to the Derby, a good stalking speed, and a great trip...it didn't take much to beat the other 18 horses in that field.

Why is Delaware the land of make believe?

She had five mediocre races, then suddenly won by 15 at Fair Grounds and turned into a monster. She may just have turned on the lightswitch, all I'm saying is it was very sudden and significant development for her.

If you haven't noticed, there are tons of horses that coincidentally only run well at Delaware, then fall on their faces when they ship anywhere but Philly. It's a profitable angle at Saratoga especially.

Part of the Delaware stupidity is that their Beyer figures are complete garbage. I don't know who makes the figures but there isn't a racetrack in America where form holds up so poorly other places based solely on the numbers.

As far as Old Fashioned, what people need to remember is this. He loafed on an easy and uncontested lead in the Remsen and pulled away from a very suspect group. Trying to beat him today is the only way to approach the race. Silver City is going to give him a very stern test in my opinion and if OF blows his doors off then we know we have a legitimate Derby player.

NT

I think I got 8-1 on Mani Bhavan at Saratoga because of this belief.

She got loose on an easy lead and never reproduced that performance, so congrats I guess. I just know that I've saved a good amount of money by throwing out overbet Delaware shippers.

She won the Spinaway afterwards and has been off since a poor performance on poly...I'm not so sure I'd right her off until she's at least raced this year.

Sorry, I just think it's silly to label a track "make belief"...a good horse can come from anywhere.

She won the Spinaway with a 66 Beyer. Might be worth mentioning.

Of course a good horse can come from anywhere. I'm not sure what that does to refute my observation that Delaware horses generally run very differently when they ship.

Because your quote was; "I find it hard to have a ton of respect for anybody that's based in the land of make believe (Delaware)." in reference to Larry Jones who has proved time and time again that he knows when he has a good horse and has a strong win percentage outside of the state of Delaware. Not having respect for someone because of their home track is silly in my opinion.

:rolleyes: I just don't agree that he's the 'most deserving' trainer to have a Derby contender, and that's mainly because I don't trust much that comes out of the mid-Atlantic circuit. I understand that he has a cool hat and conducted himself well in the Eight Belles aftermath, but I refuse to believe he should be exempt from all of the scutiny that other 25%+ trainers get.

Del shippers used to be huge at Saratoga, when Tagg was bringing them. You must not have had Mani Bhavan last summer at the Spa. When you have horsemen like Matz, Motion, Tagg, Jones and others at Delaware and Fair Hill, you have talent and quality, both horse and human. Barbaro, Afleet Alex, Hard Spun and more have come out of Delaware in the last couple of seasons.

You're not a handicapper, so I wouldn't expect you to have any idea what I'm talking about.

For the love of Christ, I'm not talking about the clearly exceptional horses that come out of the region. Someone please tell me where I said "no good horses could ever come from Delaware." I'm saying I've found that your average horse that runs well at Delaware is less likely to run the same somewhere else.

It's depressing to watch a race like that where they burn it up the first half and crawl home the back half and not one horse closes to catch the top 2.

so who won?

Old Fashioned. 45.9 and finished in a 1:37 and change.

Horrible race.

Short stretch of the mile run... never an easy spot for closers.

Old Fashioned!

Yeah that 1:36 and chnage mile for Rachel looks even better now.

I thought going into the first turn, "Dominguez is going to blow this race" when it looked as though he was going to head-to-head with SC. It's a good thing he backed off... but like pants said, no one closed anyway.

I call bias. The previous two races had longshot winners wire-to-wire despite solid fractions, then in the Southwest I think the 1-2-3-4 horses at the first two calls ran 2-1-3-5 despite the wicked splits.

Old Fashioned looked very professional but I'm still not sold.