Madoff & the Ponzi
 

Part of this hits home in Saratoga. Stone Bridge Farms, both the training center and farm are up for sale. 9 billion lost in the ponzi scam.

Tucker was involved? I suppose the horses are for sale too?

Tucker and his partner are Fairfield Greenwich Group.. as big a facilitator to Madoff as was out there.

He was an investor. That's all I know.

Sounds closer your way Steve. I don't have much detail.

Fairfield was passing on a huge portion of their investors' funds to Madoff. To the tune of $7B..

WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1229...googlenews_wsj

NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/17/bu...7hedge.html?em

People where in the Sam Hell are the regulators of these funds? Where's the audit's? I mean no one checks up on these Billion $$$ funds? Lot's of banks in England are going dwon in a blaze of glory over this also. What a way to get money outside of the USA to invest now after this fisaco.

The tip off should have been the accounting firm that signed off on the books was a one room operation that could never had the staffing to handle an account of that size and scope. The SEC blew it. But foreign investors wont hesitate to invest in the US because of this. People with money are desperate to find any place where they wont continue to lose. Our economy is bad but overseas there are much worse.

That place is a really nice farm and training center but is too far away and too big to pay for itself commercially unless you rent stalls for $10000 a month per stall. Maybe we can raise the money and make it base for Dee Tee's northern operations?

I hope your wrong because in my 401k I've got all international funds:D I'm one of only a few guys at work to that turned a profit on my 401k last year. Although it was a small one it still made money. With such large funds why don't they make more than one company in charge of tracking money?

Hey Honey. I lost 9 billion today. You'll have to start shopin at Wal-Mart. Talbots is out. Buy cheap Spanks and other pricey undergarments elsewhere.

I wasn't going to throw my hat in the ring on this discussion, for a variety of reasons, and I won't go into specifics either.

However, people truly need to understand, and not collapse, hedge funds -- and there are innumerable different types, structures, etc. -- and other non-traditional investments (private equity, AI, PIF's and/or partnerships, etc.).

First, many hedge funds have a perceived advantage in that they allegedly cross the borders of numerous styles, definitions, investment vehicles, etc. What is CRUCIAL to understand is that some aspects of their activities are very well regulated and others are not. More still, others are semi-regulated or give the appearence of being regulated, yet the reality is very different from the perception.

Second, while the normal "hedge fund" does fall within the the statutory definition of an investment company (a typical investment company must be registered with the SEC and thus becomes subject to the regulation, governance, and oversight of the SEC), there is a very different aspect to the hedge fund world. Most have a qualifying door to enter, are privately held and private in nature, and do to these and other aspects -- they are permitted to operate pursuant to exemptions from the registration process and requirements.

When you look at these hedge funds that operate under various expemtions, there of course is a trade-off. There is a presumption that hedge funds are investing in, implementing, etc. various strategies that are more risky -- which may or may not be true, depending on the details, specifics, and mission of the fund.

The hedge fund landscape was to change in Dec. 1, 2004. The SEC issued new regulations that required most hedge fund advisers to register with the SEC. I think the deadline was Feb. 1, 2006. But even these regulations allowed exemptions. However, this was an exercise in futility as the new legislation was challenged (in court) by a hedge fund manager. Ultimately, the US Court of Appeals (Washington DC) overturned it and the matter back to the SEC to be reviewed. I think the case site is Goldstein v The US SEC.

There is new proposed US regulation, but it remains to be seen where that will go.

In a similar fashion that we've seen with credit default swaps, consumer and commercial debt, credit markets, etc. -- it is very easy to blame after the fact. The fallout can be very severe. It's easy to think about the person worth several hundred million who lost, say, $50 million. However, what is overlooked is the nonprofit that had money there. The lack of regulation and the wild-west environment offered no protection and shifted all the risk to the unsuspecting.

Anyway, let's not get into trying cases here on the internet, LOL.

Eric

I will volunteer to run the Dee Tee southern operations when you buy that farm in The Keys

Madoff's neice (a well connected attorney) recently married a member of the board of the SEC. Hmmmm...

By the way, very often, when an event like this occurs, some of those who always rant and rave about everything tend to now have a captive audience, and the heretics can surface. Many use something like this as an opportunity. This is one of the reasons why many heretics call Social Security a Ponzi scheme.

Eric

I read all of this and felt extremely victimized.

Nancy Grace, please come to my rescue and help put this bad man away.

Anyone that trusts the government to look out for our interests is badly deluded.

Clearly more stringent punishments are called for across the board.

I'm all for capital punishment for people who do such wanton acts of harm to the general good.

Ok Kaspet.

Nancy, also see to it that he gets 5-to-10 for using that word.

redboard alert...

As a CPA I wonder what the fall out from this will be on the profession.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/17/news...ion=2008121720

How can an individual be such a scumbag and down right liar, I know the answer is $$$$$$.

There's a column on this in the WSJ today discussing how the SEC in particular isn't necessarily in the business of finding fraud of this nature. Maybe they should be? In any event, the column is by Holman Jenkins if you have the paper copy.

They are full, past capacity with repeat clients .

Are there riots in Palm Beach yet ?

Mass. investor saw inside Madoff scam

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081219/...wcSuI7.1iyBhIF

BOSTON – His repeated warnings that Wall Street money manager Bernard Madoff was running a giant Ponzi scheme have cast Harry Markopolos as an unheeded prophet.

But people who know or worked with Markopolos say it wasn't prescience that helped him foresee the collapse of Madoff's alleged $50 billion fraud. Instead, they say diligence and a strong moral sense drove his quixotic, nine-year quest to alert regulators about Madoff.

As i have said before the place is far too large to ever make a go of it commercially. The property taxes alone would make it tough. And considering that the vast majority of the horses there are Tuckers it is likely to soon be empty.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081220/...ndal_charities

The fallout of this disgusting incident continues, and is going to go on destroying lives all over the place for so long a period as to be inestimatable.

The Picower Foundation, with a billion in philanthropic leverage lost, will close. Among other things, funded MIT, the New York Public Library, diabetes research at Harvard Medical School...

Which lost dollar in Picower's grants for diabetes research might have been the one that ended juvenile diabetics from having to take take insulin daily?

JEHT, a law and justice foundation, closing as well... The Litwin Foundation had donated money to research for cancer and Alzheimer’s disease and charities... Dozens more.

To be honest, I find the situation so sickening that I can't accurately convey my rage and disgust.

Paul Krugman's brilliant Op-Ed in the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/19/op...gman.html?_r=1

he's a very bad man and there is nothing remotely funny about any of this.

but i'm still confused by the happy days connection.

is it potsie or fonzi that's involved?

It does get worse. The poor family left behind.

I call Social Security a Ponzi Scheme


and how is it not one? To paraphrase Nixon - when the government does something it is not illegal.

I also believe that the FDIC is a license for banks to make really questionable loans. Why not the government (we) pay for their mstakes. They have nothing to lose.


I need a bailout

:tro:
















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Fractional Reserve Banking, the BIGGEST PONZI SCHEME
 

Lol, god ... Richie thinks both of them were involved.

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/sto...storyID=755477


Hope that we all have a brighter 2009.

Considering the massive fallout, is there any pressure to be put on the Caymans and overseas bankers to get Madoffs money back?

Here's his letter to the SEC from 2005. Unbelievable that they tossed this aside like yesterday's salad.

http://online.wsj.com/documents/Mado...s_20081217.pdf

I don't feel sorry for people that invested with him directly. Only an idiot didn't see there was something shady going on.

I feel terrible for people that invested in feeders funds. They basically were screwed.

The fact that this guy is still living in his $7M apartment is disgusting.

He should be in jail right now and he should never get out again. He ruined thousands of people's lives and he should never have any enjoyment in his life again.