Papi Chullo in $16k claimer today
 

Delaware's 2nd race:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdf...ssa_128433.pdf

Oh wow, I wondered what happened to him...

Good luck to the lovely Papi Chullo. Run safely. I was wondering if he'd ever come back. Last saw him at Kenny Lejuene's farm in Florida.

Cajun and I did too... good luck Big Papi!

Papi won, paying a surprisingly high $5.40

>>>"Vied for the lead racing two wide, shook loose completing 6 furlongs then was under steady handling to hold sway"<<<

Haven't seen it, though the chart caller seems relatively unimpressed. Maybe needed one to shake off the rust...

Chart says $3.40 (1.70 for a buck)

=1.70*2 + your original 2 bucks back = 5.40 payoff

didnt even get claimed

Wow, that's unbelievable. I met the owners (at the time) on last year's Belmont day where he won the Birdstone Stakes. Seemed like nice enough folks.

Looks like he goes from the Whitney Handicap at Saratoga in 2007 to the starter handicaps at Aqueduct in 2008-09.

Does that mean running the horse for a 16k tag makes them not nice?

Being that he returned at Delaware I can't wait to bet against him in NY.

Actually yes it does. A horse that has done so much for them running in a 16K claimer. They certainly could have given him a nice retirement for what he has done for them.

The best response to a question on the blog.:wf :tro:

He was purchased privately three or four starts ago ( at least in part ).

I think my comment of yesterday was misunderstood. It just seems like a darn long way to fall that fast for a horse that was running pretty decently just a year ago.

The horse was first off the long layoff, plnging in price and had tons of red flags, even at $16k. I'm not sure but thin Winning Move bought him just before the May 4th '07 race at Belmont. I saw him win the Birdstone in their colors. I don't know when IEAH and Goldfarb (?) got in. They are listed as co owners in the Tue Form .
My guess is that they gave him the race, hoping that no one would talk the risk on him in this economy and the liklihood of having to pay to ship him someplace once DEL ends. The risk paid off, they won and kept the horse.
As for him going from G1 to overnights inside a year well, he was hardly a true G1 horse as his Whitney was a 12 length loss. He was a solid G2-3 horse however. It's not like horses don't plummet. (Anyone noticed Silver Prospector in for a $4k tag at F'Lakes lately. Last winter he was winning at AQU with BSF's over 100.)

BTW, as an aside, I met Papi a couple of years ago in the Saratoga Stakes barn. He was asweet horse, let my son feed him treats etc. Even though he was a colt, he wasn't mouthy or pushy. Whatever happens to him, I hope he gets to put his nice attitude to work someplace.

Sorry to Papi's former owners that sold, they shouldn't be lumped in with what happened. IEAH?? Running him in an 18K claimer is kind of different than the sappy pictures of Ivarone consoling Big Brown and all of the stories (from them) about how much they love thier horses... I got blasted when I said I "Hated" them on these threads but they are doing nothing to change my opinion. So instead of "hate" can I say they disappoint me as human beings. But again they are Wallstreet boys and we know how that story is playing out.

papi has won over 300k, last sat at kee race 2, Tour of the Cat winner of over 1 million $ wins a 16 k race and pays $16.80. I wonder how many 1 mill or more earners have ever run fot that price or less. by the way tour of the cat is a 10yo g

My Cousin Matt was in for a $16k early this year and has over $1m in earnings.

If even that, he was 2nd in two G3's and won an overnight stake. I like the horse, he's always been a cult favorite of ours ("heees fan club is free"), but it's not like he was a world beater.

He's probably worth 30-50k right now. So they drop him in for half that and pick up a quick check gambling, like you said, that nobody grabs him at that price. He'll probably be running for 40-50k over the winter at Aqueduct.

Seeing Shake You Down, the absolute best sprinter in the country for a couple of months in '03, in for 5k really made me angry, this doesn't. It's an acceptable business decision spotting the horse reasonably appropriately.

Although this situation pisses me off, what you are saying makes sense.

ah yes, i remember that one, i think he was quite a favorite, and didnt run well

What a move. Now Big Papi is eligible for a number of starter allowance races! I sure hope he is sound enough to continue....I've always liked this horse.

I undertand the frustration of people seeing horses with high earnings running for bottom tags. I work with a couple of organizations helping to "outplace" horses that are no longer viable as racehorses. Alot of folks directly involved are not racing people, they are horsemen though. They don't understand how a horse can have $500k in earnings, yet the owner is running him for a $5k tag. Well, if that owner paid $7.5k for him and $5k is where he fits today, it's often that (somewhat smalltime) owner that ends up "on the hook" for a lifetime of retirement care.
Most people away from the track don't understand claiming and the idea that a horse just passes glibly from barn to barn, owner to owner via the claiming route. For most pleasure and showhorse owners, transactions involving your horses are very big deals involving many phone calls, test rides, vet checks, shipping arrangements, insurance agents and what not. They cannot fathom filling out a form and essentially sight unseen, buying a horse for any amount. As such, they don't realize how many people may have been involved and how much expense went into that $500k in earnings. A 9yo horse, with $500k in earnings may well have been a net loss to most of his owners over the course of his career, after expenses are factored in.

Exactly.

This is not a situation to get emotional over.

Ding ding ding....Stick around, some people might be able to learn some stuff from you

If the horse had finished last or had been vanned off.. then I could see it..

What if he came back in a Stake and was last or vanned off? Is getting injured in a Stake somehow okay, but getting injured in a 16k plater an injustice to the horse?

Bottom line, if the trainer knows the horse and is not knowingly risking the horse's welfare by running him in a race, what does it matter what level the horse runs at?

It doesnt matter... but if he had broke down, people would assume that the trainer knows the horse and KNOWINGLY risked the horse's welfare by running him in a 16K claiming race.

Tough to say at any time whether the trainer is risking the horse's welfare, but some circumstances do draw attention. I don't think that any of us know why Papi Chullo was away for a year, but it is fair to assume that something was wrong. Perhaps the horse is over it, and the connections were taking an edge, knowing that no one was likely to claim the horse off such a steep drop, and now he is eligible for starter allowance races all winter.

The problem comes with the recent example of Brookhaven's Money at Belmont. Here is a horse with whom the current connections won a NY Stallion Series race (off the claim) in early June and then had consistently run him in NY-bred allowance company since the stakes win. After a few mediocre efforts, he is dropped precipitously to a $15K NW3L claiming race, and he is pulled up and vanned off after running less than a half mile.

i think the difference may be that if the horse has made you lets say 1mill in purse $ and you feel he is only good enough to run for 16k. then whats the point in running? to make another 10 k in purse $. a horse like tour of the cat is a 10yo g probably every time he goes out there is a certain % he will break. so whats the use. however if you feel he is good enough to run in a stake the obvious problems that usually come with age probably havent shown as much yet. just thinking out loud.

I don't have a problem with running horses in 16k claimers; I simply didn't particularly enjoy seeing this horse dropped to that level.

While not the case here, remember that older horses with high earnings probably didn't win that money for the current owners. A horse with $500k in earnings at $16k today may have won graded races long ago but the current owner may have claimed him for $30k 3 months ago, has 90 days of day rates and vet/farrier/chiro/etc into him and needs to win a race so he drops him. Is it fair that this owner (who is probably a smaller guy than the one he started with) gets stuck with the "we have to stop on him" phase of his career.
If I had earned $1m from a horse, no way would I be running him for a low tag. In fact, if he were ever claimed from me, I probably go take him back. It's not the same when all that purse money is in someone else's account.
I don't think that trainers should intentionally enter a "ready to break" horse and sadly it happens more than any of us want to see. As a bettor I have to decide if the drop is trying to pick up a purse or trying to lure some poor sap into claiming a seriously sore horse.
From a "human" standpoint I hate to think of the potential havoc a can breakdown cause in terms of human injury. As someone who likes horses, I hate to see them injured at all but especially in a catastrophic breakdown, falling to the ground and suffering a lot of pain, even if it is only for a short time. I hate to see them literally run till they kill themselves. I also hate the effect it has on the sport in general. Think of Barbaro and Eight Belles and how many people asked you how you could be involved in a game that would do that to such lovely animals.

I :{>: Papi Chullo.

How sad.

http://www.greenbutgame.org/2009/07/08/rip-papi-chullo/

It is with regret that we announce the death of Papi Chullo who died this morning. An necropsy performed by Dr. Clifford Bradford indicated that the young stallion suffered a heart attack.

Papi Chullo, a Graded Stakes winner of 7 races and US$390,062.00 endeared himself to racing fans throughout the United States. He arrived in Jamaica to stand at Mammee Ridge Farm, and became an immediate favourite of the staff and the local community alike.

Two mares have been confirmed to be in foal to the late Papi Chullo.

He will be missed.
:(

This is probably one of those moments where you had to be there, but when Funny Cide ran at Saratoga there were lots of people pressed against the paddock rail all looking at Funny. Papi Chullo was being circled around the tree next to him and the groom yelled to the crowd: "Papi Chullo Fan Club - Free to Enter!" :D

RIP Papi.

RIP Papi :( I'll never forget that day.

He was a cool horse. The day I met him in the stakes barn and he was eating treats from my 3yo son's hand was great. Sorry to hear that he's gone.