3 year old filly Eclipse?
 

Apparently, Proud Spell has finished 2nd in the Cotillion (found this out on another board).......by 3 lengths to Seattle Smooth. I know Larry Jones has been snippy and adament that his filly has/had a lock on the award, although I didn't necessarily agree with him. Didn't Flute win the KY Oaks and the Alabama and still not get the award?

I'm hoping that PS's defeat will enhance MN's chances of winning the Eclipse; does she have a shot at it if she runs well/decently (who knows how she will handle the synthetic track at SA) in the BC?

Thanks!

She probably has to win. . .

Why not Indian Blessing? ;)

I agree that she deserves to be considered. . .

Why would MN have to win? She's 1-1 in a head to head match up and this was a bad loss for PS in the sense that it was a pretty terrible field. MN had to be penalized for her loss to PS, so PS definitely needs to be penalized for this loss.

I just can not see giving the title to Indian Blessing. I didn't even agree with Xtra Heat, but none of the 3 year old fillies that year did enough to secure the award. IB is up against two very good fillies in PS and Music Note that have done a lot this year. She'll very likely win the BC Distaff Sprint (or whatever it is it's called) and get the championship for female sprinter, which she would deserve.

Indian Blessing's only losses this year are to Proud Spell and Zaftig, and she beat the former once. If she wins the BC F&M Sprint and neither Music Note nor Proud Spell win the Distaff, why shouldn't she be considered?

Because the Eclipse awards are pretty much based on WINS - so MN runs a decent 3rd behind Zenyatta and Ginger Punch in the Ladies' Classic and that decides the Eclipse?

My post on the Cotillion thread notwithstanding, in retrospect it wasn't a complete mismatch on speed figures. Seattle Smooth absolutely crushed last out (first time for Tony Dutrow--go figure) at Delaware. In fact, her Beyer for that race was higher than Music Note's for the Gazelle. Maybe a new contender has emerged.

Proud Spell obvious has the better resume, going off of both races won and horses defeated. The thing that both fillies are missing, and that Music Note perhaps is in better position to achieve, is a win against older horses. In that respect, all either has to do really is place in the Distaff, or worst case, finish in front of the other in the race.

I think that's how Farda Amiga won the Eclipse in 2002.

Was the 2002 3 year-old filly crop as stacked as this one?

Stacked? You got two horses outside of Eight Belles, who is the likely 3rd finalist. None have stepped up to face older mares. The Distaff is likely to decide it whether or not either one actually finishes first.

Its a very weak imitation of Sky Beauty versus Hollywood Wildcat in '93. I won't even come close to the blasphemy of suggesting its in the same time zone as Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo in '88.

so we're ruling out Indian Blessing?

Yes.

Why exactly?

Yes, she won the Davona Dale at Fair Grounds. That's a Grade 2. The other fillies bettered that accomplishment.

All her other wins are within the sprint division.

Put it this way, should Big Brown, winner of the Monmouth Stakes on grass, be considered seriously for the Turf Eclipse because he also won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness?

No.

Betsy
 

Just curious.....what would your position be on these same two horses ( Proud Spell and Music Note ) if Proud Spell was an AP Indy and Music Note was a Proud Citizen?

What about Wait a While in '06? And your Big Brown analogy isn't analogous. . .

really why not, shes a freak...

So, if one finishes 7th and the other 8th.... it's the 7th place horse that gets the nod? what if another 3yo filly finishes ahead of both?
Proud Spell is still the front runner for this, unless Music Note wins the Ladies Classic... or both lose and Indian Blessing wins her race (she has to be considered as well, IMO)

You talk about the 2002 crop being bad, how about the 2006 group? Lemons Forever, Bushfire, Pine Island? Personally either of the last two would have been acceptable since they won multiple Grade 1s (Smuggler won the award for Christ's sake)...

I don't think either Proud Spell, Music Note, or Eight Belles are mere ham sandwiches in this instance. The voters don't really have to look beyond the obvious races to find a suitable champion.

Since they've set up a female sprint division, Indian Blessing has become a specialist the way Xtra Heat was. She'll probably get her championship so long as she doesn't get tagged late by Intangaroo in the BC.

Well, there's always a chance at a Dance Smartly-like surge to the title (she beat out archrivals Lite Light and Meadow Star, if you recall). Basically, Seattle Smooth is sort of in that position, though I highly doubt that horse will reappear in CA (unless Ernie Moody dictates it) and her form reversal is a bit dubious.

If they both run out in the Distaff, maybe that will help Eight Belle's chances, similar to Risen Star, Charismatic, and Prairie Bayou.

And I guess Music Note hasn't won anything of note. You just said the awards are decided on wins .......well, Proud Spell just lost to a very mediocre bunch.

Music Note has the Mother Goose, CCA, Gazelle and a 2nd in the Alabama on her record. Proud Spell as the KY Oaks, Alabama, FG Oaks (I believe) and Delaware Oaks on her record.

Indian Blessing won a stake or two at the FG this year (one of which was ungraded, I think), the Test, another sprint stakes (not major) and this race today. If she wins the Filly and Mare Sprint, she deserves to be on the ballot for sure for 3 year old filly champion, but no - I don't think her resume stacks up as champion filly, not when PS and MN have done so much.

She has obviously won some races of note, but Proud Spell beat her when they faced each other in a fairly run race. And Proud Spell also won the Oaks. She finished second to a pretty fast horse today. . . I'm not sure what you're arguing about since it seemed like you agreed that Proud Spell is still in the Eclipse lead as of right now. . . Whatever they do from here on will probably decide it as PS is far from a cinch.

Umm. . . it was the Grade 1 Prioress

Do you honestly think that Seattle Smooth would give Music Note(or Proud Spell on a day when she's on her game) a real tussle? Music Note's Gazelle was ridiculously easy - the Beyer in that race is almost completely irrelevent. I have to go back to the Cotillion thread, but I doubt that anyone thought PS was going to lose.

I can see I'm a minority of one on this one, but no big deal. I just hope you are all wrong, lol, because I would love to see MN win the award. In any case, thanks for the replies!

I don't see why my answer in that regards would be relevant. I posted this question here because I thought (and I was right) that I could get honest answers without being picked on (I'm not saying you are, but I am tired of having to answer for my fandom). All I really said in this thread is that I think MN should be considered on equal footing with PS. I don't think that is so ridiculous a notion, certainly not so ridiculous that it's apparent that anyone that thinks that must be biased towards that filly because of her sire.

That was just passive-aggressive baiting to ferret out all the Proud Spell supporters. Too bad there's so many Indian Blessing fans, too.

Let me be clear that I am not knocking PS in any way...nor Indian Blessing. I just don't think IB has a resume that stacks up to PS or MN. In a weaker year, yes. As somone pointed out earlier, IB will very likely get the Eclipse for female sprinter. Also, I really don't see why PS is such a lead pipe cinch unless MN wins the Distaff, but I suppose it doesn't really matter. I have no clue as to how MN will handle the synthetic, but I suspect she won't handle it well at all. That will settle the question.

you really have to ask?

Have you seen Seattle Smooth's last two starts? I guarantee you the Go For Wand at Delaware was won just as easily by her as the Gazelle was by Music Note.

Also, Proud Spell may be a tired filly, but she certainly didn't fall drastically off form today.

regarding the actualy discussion, i think indian blessing has an outside shot at the eclipse--but she'd need help. both current front runners would have to fade, and indian blessing probably would have to beat males in the bc to win the eclipse. even if she did that, the bias against sprinters vs classic horses might be too much to overcome.

i still think right now proud spell has the nod-but there is still racing left to do, so we'll see.

Since PS doesn't seem to like synthetic, I'm going out on a limb here and say she's going to be hard pressed to beat Zenyatta in the distaff. That almost rules her out for the Eclipse.

Music Note, while not as good a resume this year, is helped by PS losing today. She's an unknown on synthetic, but AP Indy seems to do okay on the fake stuff. Still, will she beat Zenyatta?

Indian Blessing looked just okay in winning over the synthetic, but at least she did win. I don't see any Zenyatta caliber horses in either sprint race, so who knows.

proud spell gets it imo.......

i think so too, unless music note take the distaff.

Clearly Zaftig deserves the Eclipse.

She beat Indian Blessing. Indian Blessing beat Proud Spell. Proud Spell beat Music Note.

Clearly Zaftig is better than all of them.

End of debate.

She won the Silverbulletday, a Grade 3, at Fair Grounds. The Davona Dale is run at Gulfstream.

The Big Brown analogy makes no sense. Last time I checked, the Eclipse is for best three-year-old filly, not best three-year-old filly router. Indian Blessing winning the Three-Year-Old Filly Eclipse would be nothing like Big Brown winning the Turf Eclipse.

Indian Blessing has won two Grade 1's, two Grade 2's, a Grade 3, run second in a Grade 1 and second in a Grade 2. That resume isn't comparable to Music Note's? How do you figure?

And what if Indian Blessing wins the BC F&M Sprint and neither Proud Spell nor Music Note win the distaff? Indian Blessing will have two wins over elders, while Proud Spell and Music Note will have zero.

Gun to my head, I'd say so too, but Jones' comments that she has it 'sewn up' were ridiculous.

too true on indian blessing-she tried elders and won, while the others have stuck to their own age group.
i would have no problem at all with IB winning the eclipse.

and i think proud spell has more wins than music note has starts. and many forgive her loss to music note, as she had so much trouble-while in the music note loss to proud spell, music note had no excuse, she just couldn't pass a gutsy filly.

Nice analysis of the seventh at Belmont today. I went against you with the Tagg dropper and paid dearly.

She won the Silverbulletday, a Grade 3, at Fair Grounds. The Davona Dale is run at Gulfstream.

Actually, until a couple of years ago, the Silverbulletday was called the Davona Dale. My mistake.

I would still say that the creation of a seperate female sprint division title lessens Indian Blessing's claim on the 3yo title, though I realize a lot of her sprint wins were age restricted.

Its hard for me to believe that the voters will give her both Eclipses even in the event that she wins and the other two bomb horrendously on BC day.