Curlin retired?
 

Is it true?

Where did that come from Chuck?

Where did you hear that? I unfortunatly have been preparing for the lovely Gustov since I am just outside of Baton Rouge. :(

Be safe PP..I am in Beaumont...You are of course much closer and it looks like you, as have I, have decided to stay and ride it out..

Well, with the earth shattering announcement of Mcann's Mojave going into the stud business, I guess Jess doesn't want to get beaten to the punch ;)

http://www.drf.com/news/article/97829.html

I just assumed that if was getting 112 beyer for yesterday that it must be a retirement gift. I may just be a dopey horseman as Andy would say but the beyers are getting to be a joke.

Pass The Point would have jumped up to a 108 - 109 then... This after being an average of about 90 in his career, though he did get a 103 for his last effort. Head scratching.

Post Edit, all this while setting contested fast fractions, either he is a very good horse on the upswing or the numbers are amiss.

I thought he looked awful yesterday (compared to his usual self) - first thing I said to the people I was with was that he might be retired. . . Was surprised by the Beyer but these numbers aren't just manufactured. Pace might've been a factor. . .

He is obviously a year older and a better horse. He hadn't run on the dirt in over a year and it shouldn't be surprising that he ran a 108 or 109 yesterday considering his last race.

A 112 beyer is pretty much exactly what Curlin deserved based on the other races yesterday, but considering there was only the one other route it is hard to say how accurate the number was.

The JCGC will be the real test. He will have had his prep to get him fit and he will be running at his ideal distance. We will find out if Dubai took something out of him and he simply isn't the same horse as last year, or he will run huge and stamp his place in history.

He isn't beating a horse like Henrythenavigator in the BCC anyway, so if they were smart they wouldn't even bother to show up.

He's done enough.

I disagree. Sometimes they are. Curlin's fig yesterday is exhibit z.

Beyers are getting to be a joke. Last Sunday at AP the winner of the 1st going 1 1/16th got a number 10 points higher than the winner of the third going the same distance 4/5ths slower and with no weather or track maintenance. not to mention the winner of the 2nd and 8th getting the same number despite the second difference in time at the same difference. The projections that they make often trump what actually happens.

I primarily use bris numbers, I agree the numbers are askew at times and the conspiracist in me may even think fudged. I haven't played Mountaineer in a long time but I always thought the figure maker there was on acid also.

Though Curlin has a ways to go before I compare him to Cigar, I remember thinking the same thing about him when he started to look ordinary. Now ordinary for Cigar was still very good, but you knew you were seeing him on his downside. I have that same feeling Curlin's best races are behind him.

Horses there and delaware get numbers that are rarely duplicated anywhere else

chuck you need to call out curlin..maktus match race.. purse 5 cases of natty light..:tro:

I'd be shocked if the sheets have the race coming back as fast as the Beyer. He carried 126lbs and was hung wide - these days, when that happens and a horse still runs a 112 Beyer it comes back a virtually near all-time record performance on sheets.

The pace figure for the Woodward was 23 points faster than the final figure. You look at the days other route race - horses racing dead last and second to last after the first six furlongs - through a 1:12.70 pace in a 9 horse field - catapulted past the rest of the field and had four lengths on the 3rd place finisher at the finish.

A.P Arrow got a 102 Beyer in the Woodward and he was the horse who clearly ran the most shockingly poor race to me. He had the race unfold perfectly for him and still got beat 6.75 lengths to Curlin at level weight...even worse, he was defeated by both a fried Past The Point and a fried Wanderin Boy with no excuse.

Shockingly poor? Really? It's the same lousy race he always runs. You were expecting a significantly better result from him?

That's not just on the Beyers though.

I think you badly are missing the point.

Even at 31/1 odds going into the race - I didn't bet A.P. Arrow or use him on any tickets.

However, if I had been able to forecast the savage nature of the pace and how the race was run - I think he would have been a virtual lock to finish on the board that race - and most certainly defeat Past The Point and Wanderin Boy.

I didn't like Devine Park at all going in - but the way the race was run - for him to return from a layoff at 9fs - he became even that much more of an extremely high percentage proposition to run a non-effort.

I made only a single bet in the race - a Curlin over Wanderin Boy straight exacta.

However, it's crystal clear that from an analytical standpoint - Past The Point is the horse who comes out of this race with the surprisingly good performance and A. P. Arrow - more so than Curlin - comes out of this race with the surprisingly bad performance.

Another horse whose form post-Dubai is worse than it was pre-Dubai. Look at the PPs. Before Dubai, he was decent (except on Poly), but he's really not competitive at this level anymore.

I just would like an honest answer that if you owned Curlin, you wouldn't say wtf and just run in the BC and hell be damned.

According to the Beyer fig makers the sprint varient for the one turn King's Bishop was -13 but the two turn varient in the next races as + 1.

Hence Curlin runs a 112 and First Defence runs a 109.

The -13 would put Hello Broadway at an 87
Freedom Bay should get a 99.
Delta Sea would get an 88 and that seems a bit high.

The Beyer guys are wrong sometimes and you can make money if you believe they are wrong.

It's been pretty clear for awhile that Jackson is making a statement about taking a stab at the all time earnings mark besides proving that he welcomes a chance to take on BB. Since the poly issue precludes a meeting at the BC, a more creative answer to luring both entrants to the same race this year seems unlikely unless some carnival like match race suddenly becomes a possibility. The Classic is a bad idea if yesterday's performance is the best Curlin has left in him this year.....He hung around longer than most of the others who had any measure of success perhaps it's time to take a step back and see how the next month or so unfolds rather than pushing him further right now

I was really glad to see him race. I've seen him on the track several times since he's been here, and I went to see him in the paddock. I hadn't seen him that close up since the BC.

Anyway, the Beyer # in my mind is a moot point. I don't see it being used as publicity in his stallion ad, nor do I see it being used as a reference point for any horses coming out of the race. Sure, we can argue all day long, and the more we argue, the more things we'll find to argue about.

As far as his performance and what's next. I am not a trainer, nor do I play on on the internet, but from my point of view -- what I saw, I am not convinced he liked the track. I was there and watched the race very closely. I had an excellent view. More importantly, I heard several comments after the race that inferred the same thing -- not internet trainers or self proclaimed experts -- people who make their living in the business and who have qualified opinions. I also don't think being in a bit tight in the first turn helped, but he's older, more mature, had plenty of time to settle, settle in, etc. The pace and trip was another factor.

The way the race shaped up, I didn't expect that impressive move where he would eat up ground, power by, and so on. Didn't seem to be that kind of race to me -- and again, the track might have been a factor.

About where he goes next -- sounds to me like Jackson has put everything in play, at least to some extent, albeit small. If he doesn't seem like the kind of horse who would take to the poly/synthetic/etc. -- why send him? To be a "sportsman"? For the good of the game? Same old, age old, been there done that arguement. If the BC is in play, why not send him early, give him every chance. If not, so be it. The money title is nice but doesn't make him any greater in comparison to the greatest horses of all-time.

Eric

Very true. I might look through biased glasses to think this, but if the well is running a bit dry or whatever, yes, bad idea.

Eric

anyone who disagree's does not understand horse racing... ANYONE, what he is saying is so simple and correct its hard to imagine how you guys are knocking him

DrugS and I have a disagreement. He doesn't like the figure, in part because he thinks A. P. Arrow ran an unusually bad race, whereas I'm more into buying the figure, in part because I think A. P. Arrow ran a characteristically mediocre race, while the top three all ran above average races.

I still greatly value DrugS' opinion. And I still consistently laugh at yours.

I had pictured that Divine Park would run the race that Pass The Point ran, and vice versa. Pass The Point ran huge. The more I think about it, I don't believe it was anything other than the usual solid performance from Curlin and not really indicative of any kind of regression.

The bigger question mark of the race to me is what happened to Divine Park? Whether you liked him or not, seems I was the only one to like him going into the race, wrong I was. I don't think anyone would have expected such a non race from him as what he showed Saturday, obviously he never looked comfortable over the track. It's one thing to have first run on the leader and fade, which could be explained, but the horse never even raised a hoof in the race. To me the same question mark of how far he wants to go still exists after the Woodward, as this race cannot be taken at face value from such a non effort.

LOL :D

I only wish that jackson would have come "over the top" and challenge ivrone and dutrow to match his 5 mill in a match race on the dirt at a 1 mile and 1/2

i wouldn't give him any excuse, I'd say he's not ready for big-time 2 turn races. I also had expected more, but it wasn't there.

You may still get your wish once Jackson realizes he wants no part of rested improving well bred talent in the BC prior to the orgy that is Curlin's future....

He seemingly wasnt right physically. A month ago he was at a clinic getting checked out for a mystery ailment.

I still can't believe Wanderin Boy held on and Loose Leaf failed to keep coming.

The pace was real race horse time. Robbie was worried and seemed to whip Curlin more for this one than he did for the DWC. not because he was concerned about getting the win but a bad beyer fig