Best race in Delaware Park history???
 

First a disclaimer for people who haven't figured out yet that I'm probably the biggest fan of Indian Charlie (the horse version) in the world. I follow his progeny fairly closely.

That out of the way, two of the very impressive recent maiden filly winners he's had, Puskita and Indian Way, somehow ended up in the same race at Delaware Park on the 23rd.

Indian Way's debut was at SA back in April. She hopped at the start and was off real slow. She was about ten back early on and then went seven wide while rallying up for third.

She made her next start about a month later and got away cleanly. She was up near the lead and drew off as they turned for home for an easy five length win in about 114.3, over a ridiculously fast track.

I don't expect this one to be around very long as she's trained by Harty.

Puskita debuted May 25th at Pimlico off of only two published works. In what I felt was a stunning debut, she pressed just off the pace and drew off to win by 15 in 110.3, over a pretty slow track. She only got a 96 BSF for that performance, but man, she looked like a freight train coming down the lane!

Nice PG'85 Giants Causeway impersonation.

It's a loaded 55K stake anyway - Sweet Hope is back on dirt and in there. Puskita and Indian Way are obviously both very talented and will be the two to beat.

I expect a few scratches for sure.

Nice try dude. I am impervious to being baited by the likes of you!

There are though a couple of interesting horses in that race besides the two I mentioned. Pretty damn strong for a 55k 6f 3yo filly race at Delaware Park.

Lion Heart dude?

giants causeway and indian charlie are not in the same league

That's an understatement.

i am glad we agree....
giant is going to be a sire of all sires...
storm cat already is.

I'm glad you think we agree.

Facts do not support your position however. If you look at the quality of mares both horses have been bred to, it really is no contest who the better stallion is. Considering that about 90% of the mares bred to Indian Charlie (in the first five years) were either unraced or never won a race, what he's accomplished at stud so far is beyond amazing.

There are only a few stallions in this country that move up their mares the way he does.

One other thing I disagree with. I don't think Storm Cat is the sire of sires that you and a lot of others think he is.

He's had a few nice sires, like GC and Stormy Atlantic, but what other top notch sires has he gotten?

I certainly wouldn't rate him as the next Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, or even Gone West.

he was a bust as a sire of sires til the giant came along. thing is, giant's causeway's fee is huge, so you have to consider the ROI with him, as compared to a horse like indian charlie. having a giants baby not sell would be a lot bigger loss to swallow than an IC for instance...

Forestry, Hennessy, Tale of the Cat, Forest Wildcat, Harlan, Catienus, Exploit, Yankee Gentleman, Freud, Pure Prize...

Forestry? LOL. True, his get sell well, but cmon, he sucks.

Especially at 125k or so.

Forest Wildcat is moderate at best.

Hennessy is one I forgot about. He did okay here and there.

TOTC gets a decent runner now and then, but mostly they are pretty frail and don't amount to much.

Harlan was good, but short lived.


Catienus is solid, considering his start at stud (wasn't he in NY?).

I'll take a pass on Freud and Exploit. Yankee Gentleman got off to a nice start and Pure Prize has had a couple of good runners.

I just don't see that as a tremendous roster for a supposed sire of sires.

Would you like a partial list from Northern Dancer, Mr. P., or even Raise a Native?

giants causeway has the potential to be one of the best sires ever, i have been saying that for years...

as for him on the track, well listen, ppl on this site say curlin would get destroyed in the ARC, so what does that say about the giant, he came here first time on dirt vs americas best, and almost got it done.... he is very underated as a race horse and sire.

Isn't it a little unfair to compare Storm Cat to Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, or Raise A Native?

I'm no pedigree expert but I don't see how that's a fair comparison.

NT

Just so you know, I HATE Forestry, and think Storm Cat was supremely overrated, but you were looking for decent sires he's had, so I gave you a list.

Not if he stays in the United States. His stud fee has steadily dropped over the past few years, and if he doesn't produce a "big horse" on the dirt soon, he'll be viewed as simply a turf sire.

heatseeker
first samurai

just consider my point about him as a race horse not a sire, ppl on this website say curlin will get crushed in the ARC, but dident giant causeway do the same thing, he came here for are best race, and just missed

it started in the breeders cup, i just had a feelings, i boxed him and tiznow, pretty big bet, and hit it.... then i looked up on him, watched his races and realized he was a amazing horse, with a amazing pedigree

you'd be better off cheering for tiznow, he's turning out to be quite a sire, without the price tag.

and they asked for dirt horses, heatseeker is a dirt horse? besides, if that's the best/all he can produce at his price, he needs to go back to the uk.

GC always got his just due as a racer, and he's overrated as a sire. especially by you.

First Samurai is retired. Heatseeker is an older horse that has thrived on synthetic surfaces, and did not win a stakes race here until he was 5; he's not going to change Giant's Causeway's perception. GC needs to produce a good 2YO or 3YO on conventional dirt or his stock will continue to fall.

heetseeker is the second best older horse in the usa right now, and you really cant even argue that...

and oaklawn park is dirt ? correct ? heetseeker did run huge there, and earned a decent number, comparable to curlins races.

first sam, he was a great 2 yr old... on conventional dirt... and with racing now a days, major meets like keenland on synthatic, i dont really think it matters.

heatseeker manages one second at oaklawn, and now he's a dirt horse? and again, if that's the best horses (and two at that) that giants causeway can produce, he needs a serious price reduction!

as for second best of anything, who cares whose second. you think five years down the road, someone will care it was the lakers who finished second in the '08 season?

so if heetseeker wins the breeders cup classic, that does nothing for giants causeway as a sire ? is that what your saying. ?

because with curlins status, right now heetseeker has to be the favorite for the classic.

the way you say manages ? name a older horse besides curlin, who can beat heetseeker on dirt ? ... i think he could actually run with curlin

i thought he got a lot of credit here, especially after his bc--and that that was why they kept him here to stand.

tiago beat him on dirt.

tiago is a good horse, who continues to find himself in paceless races....
i know ppl who think very highly of tiago.

dirt is king in the us, regardless of where the bc is run. winning on AWT only cements the perception the giants causeway can't sire a top dirt horse.

please stay

congratulations.

as for paceless races, that's just another excuse for not winning.

what's wrong dahoss, the tone getting too shrill in here?:D

or was it the 'heatseeker can run with curlin' comment??

i disagree... how is dirt king still ? dont get me wrong, i love dirt, and i hate synthetic, i would prefer every track dirt, but the next 2 breeders cup's are more then likely on AWT.... major tracks keenland and arlington, woodbine, all of Cali.... As much as i hate to say it AWT is taking over...

im not sticking up for him... but its a fact... he runs into these small groups, heetseeker is more tactical then him... i will say tiago was a bit flat to begin the year, but Mike Veitch is high on him.

If the fact that he hasn't produced a top 2YO or 3YO dirt horse in this country in the past three years doesn't matter (First Samurai was in his first crop), then why then has his advertised stud fee dropped from $300,000 to $125,000?