When do you scratch due to heat?
 

This is for my own education

Is there ever a time where it is just too hot to run your horse? I know that Tagg didn't like to run Funny Cide in high temperatures. Many people on tv yesterday kept talking about the heat and how horses do not like hot weather. Is this true. Just inform me a little here.

Didn't they cancel a card at the Spa last year for excessive heat?

Two years ago.

Delaware and Philly do it frequently each year which may include today.

Horses take cold far better than heat. I can see scratching because of heat but honestly, if the race is the Belmont and you are that close to a TC...I wouldn't want to opt out either. Tagg knew Funny Cide didn't really like mud and had to face a ton of it in the Belmont. If it's any other race, he probably would have stayed in the barn.

Colonial pushed back their post times today to get out of the afternoon heat.

They always start late afternoon during the week.

Spyder

You scratch when it looks like you wont win...then it becomes too hot

Is that like putting the cart before the horse ?:rolleyes:

Kind of. But it is a nice easy excuse to scratch. Realistically when it gets to be 95 and humid it really is too hot and you are putting the horses in a dangerous position.

I was just kidding with you, and I understand the point.. Why send the horse out and have a race day take tooooooooooo much out of them and have to wait weeks till the next race.

It does take a lot out of them when it is really hot. They are working so much harder just standing in the stall trying to stay cool. Heat is really hard on them.

What's the typical gallop for a horse in the morning? Is it once around the track? Say, 1.5 miles at BEL, for example?

What time did they move the first post to? Because they always start late during the week. 5:00 first post has been the norm there for a while during the weekdays.

when the golf bag is too heavy!!

anywhere from 1 1/4 to 1 3/4's is typical

Cannon, what can a trainer do in order to keep their horse hydrated and keeping them from heat exhaustion?

You try to keep them cool as possible, put extra salt in their feed, give them fluids before and after the race, tube them with electrolytes, etc and then really hope it helps

Some places (I particularly remember the old July Select Sales at Keeneland, now a melted memory) they put box fans in the top of the stall doors to cool the horses off.

I agree with all YOU do, but why do MANY trainers REMOVE the water buckets from the stalls on race day and prohibit fluids. When I use to hang around the barns at Belmont, this was a routine thing done by all my trainers and for the life of me, could never understand restricting fluids. Turner,Contessa, Violette, Gyrmardi all said some gibberish about water making the horses feel full and makes them sluggish on race day. I can see, removing feed, but never fluids.

I asked them about the value of lasix (which is a diurectic and removes water from systems) as well as restricting water. They just looked :o , never giving much thought to the scientific basis of prehydration and rehydration of athletes, including equine. Only Violette, who has a college degree and understood the whole hydration philosophy, agreed that he was looking to change his views and start to hydrate with electrolytes his barn. This was in 2003-04.

Cannon, do ANY equine research companies or equine facilities do ANY RESEARCH on performance with hydration? Years ago, 50's through 70's, we restricted water for our athletes until Gatorade and other companies did all the research onto improving performance with sports carbohydrate/potassium/sodium solutions. Now, through research, NOBODY even thinks of playing without using a product as it has been shown it improves performance.

We have come so far in research with sweat-fluid retention ect, that we can now customize the product we give out prerace or contest. Heavy salty sweating is given one product while regular water based sweat is given another and with simple in room or barn tests we can know what type we have. Why are we still so far away in horse racing? Is it that nobody has done the equine testing or reseach yet? Don't care about it? No profit in it for a company to make an equine version of gatorade-powerade-pedialyte and market it worldwide. Too much work for understaffed barn employees? Darn, in the summer, I would bring my horse trainers staff gatorade and lemonade weekly to keep them cool as they hot walked or bathed down my horses in the summer heat!

I really wonder when I see horses all lathered up or heavily sweating compared to opponents, is the horse really nervous or is he already in some state of heat distress physiologically from fluid restrictions, OR is that normal sweat for that horse in hot humid conditions. Are horses that sweat that white milkish stuff really a salty sweater and that is his normal for them and they need more salt or electrolytes prerace? We know as handicappers that we usually throw out a horse that is sweating bullets in the paddock as it usually indicates poor upcoming performance. Tale of Ekati was heavily sweating prerace Saturday. Ran like crap. Funny Cide was known to dislike hot humid racing days and always ran poorly if not scratched. What do you think the chances are that the same trainer has old school water restriction in place in his barns?

I looked at BB prerace on high def TV and he didn't look to me sweating much at all. Not wet anywhere!!!Even the announcers said he looked great. On a 100 degree day, he was the only living thing at Belmont that wasn't sweating. Everyhorse in the warmup jog came back to the gate sweating in various degrees. BB none at all. I told my son, that was not a good sign to me as IMO he was already out of fluids and could NOT sweat and cool off anymore. Did the 6 hours in those hot Belmont detention barns cook him? He surely didn't enjoy his stay there as we all saw on ESPN. Did the water plumbing problem at Belmont have something to do with his water intake or was he restricted by barn policy? We'll never know. But I sure wish somebody or some entity do more study and research. The equine set is starting slowly to understand heat stress and heat stroke as they now all have water hoses, ice blankets and heat medication and some other 20th century innovations trackside for the horses in distress.Last year for the first time we saw racing canceled at SAR because of the heat and humidity ( even though we have no temperature/humidity research to go on). It was an empirical decision based on some trainers feelings. Why not do some research and when we have a temp/humity level, we cancel. Something firm, not some random decision from some NYRA or state official. Get the state racing vets involved in education. They are the doctors for these horses and are in charge of their health. I've watched racing for a long time and I've never seen so many horses go down post race and collapse, only to hop up after given water. NYRA equine ambulance drivers are coming with the dreaded curtin, only to have the heat stroke victim jump up and jog/walk after given hydration. We hardly ever saw that years ago, but now let's hope we can get to the 21st century soon with more study before the PETA idiots :zz: look at this before we do!

Good post Storm Cadet. I didnt even think about the possibility of a horse not sweating when they are suppose to. And one would come to the conclusion that a horse should sweat when they are on a track that is 100 degrees. It is only natural. And if they do not sweat, then they have to be out of fluids. There is no other reason for them to sweat.

I am more on an expert on the human body and not the equine body. And it is always the case of a person not getting enough fluids in them when they come to see me and state that they do not sweat. "They" think it is because they are in good shape. I tell them NOOOOOO!!!!! You should sweat more when you work out because you have to get your body hydrated and more importantly oxidized.

Will be interesting to see if any tracks on the east coast shut down today with this 100 plus heat. They are closing down schools today and sending kids home in tri state area, something that we don't normally see.

I dont know if any research exists to be honest. We will let the horses drink water before the race but we will monitor it because after lasix a horse tends to overdrink (is that a word?). Very little research is done it seems in any regard on racehorses. I wouldnt mind giving iv fluids the morning of the race but it is against the rules now.

Thanks my point, so what if a horse drinks too much. CAN a horse drink too much. Thirst mechanisms are a part of the hypothalamus gland (The hypothalamus controls body temperature, hunger, thirst, fatigue, anger, and circadian cycles.)

If the brain senses a need for fluids, it sends that signal. WHY ever restrict it, especially if there has never been any scientific research that says otherwise in a racehorse.

I'd love, and this probably seems gross to many, use a refractometer like we use in drug testing, (here's one they use for racehorses by the way:
http://www.reichertai.com/files/broc...1169835881.pdf

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs...urnalCode=ajvr

and test the specific gravity of horses urine post race and see just how many are racing dehydrated and see performance stats along with that! An animal that has dehydrated urine with a USG >1.025-1.040 (depending on species). Dilute urine in a dehydrated or azotemic animal is abnormal and could be caused by renal failure, hypo- or hyperadrenocorticism, hypercalcemia, diabetes mellitus, hyperthyroidism, diuretic therapy, or diabetes insipidus. Glucosuria increases the refractive index of urine, resulting in an increased USG despite increased urine volume.



Any correlation to performance in equine racing and hydration...now would that change racing if we found out PROPERLY hydrated horses train and race better! You should ask your testing lab for ph and specific gravity when they are tested and correlate the race results & do your own in your barn! Not difficult to do, just whistle and hold the cup steady Chuck!:D

BTW: here is a scientific study done on racehorses and their specific gravity of lasix vs non lasix horses.

http://jvdi.org/cgi/reprint/14/3/231.pdf

I know that my trainer has scratched a couple of times at Ellis Park when he thought it was too hot to run. It does get hot/humid at the "pea patch"

not sweating when you're supposed to is a sign of heat stress, or more seriously, heat stroke-which is deadly. i would imagine it would be the same in horses as it is in humans.
i saw them laying whole ice bags on some of the horses backs when they were walking from the track back to the barns.

i just think a combo of things affected big brown, and in total, was way too much for him to overcome. they may never find a reason why-as they're looking for one big thing, and i think it was many little things ( or maybe not so little) combined that kept him from the win.

We had a thoroughbred that wouldn't sweat ... it was never a good thing in the summers down here with as hot as it gets. He was constantly blowing (breathing heavy.) We had him on a supplement called ONE AC and it seemed to help a bit, although it didn't completely correct the problem.