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-   -   5/31-6/1 (WO): Nassau S. (Gr. II); Plate Trial (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22838)

Kasept 05-29-2008 01:38 PM

5/31-6/1 (WO): Nassau S. (Gr. II); Plate Trial
 
SATURDAY 6th (3:35) Nassau S. (G2)

1 1/16 Miles (Turf) | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $300,000

1 1 Sealy Hill Husbands P Casse Mark 124 L 5-2
2 2 Arden Belle Moore M Gerl Robert 119 L 20-1
3 3 Autobahn Girl Sutherland C Pierce Malcolm 115 L 15-1
4 4 Yousaidido Callaghan S Baresich Stanley 115 L 15-1
5 5 Callwood Dancer (IRE) Da Silva E R Attfield Roger L 117 L 8-1
6 6 Quiet Jungle Landry R C Frostad Mark 115 L 8-1
7 7 Arravale Valdivia J Jr Benson MacDonald 115 L 4-1
8 8 Sans Souci Island Wilson E Attfield Roger L 119 L 12-1
9 9 Nottawasaga Pizarro T Coatrieux Eric 115 L 6-1
10 10 The Niagara Queen McAleney J S Asmussen Steven M 117 L 12-1
11 11 Tell It as It Is Ramsammy E Smith James J 115 L 15-1



SUNDAY 7th (4:03) Plate Trial S.

1 1/8 Miles (All Weather Track) | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $150,000

1 1 East End Tap Pizarro T Baker Reade 126 Blk-On L 12-1
2 2 Not Bourbon Jones J Attfield Roger L 126 L 4-1
3 3 Mamma's Knight Baird J DiPasquale Sam 126 L 20-1
4 4 Chasin the Tornado David D J Minshall Barbara J 126 Blk-On L 20-1
5 5 Solitaire Landry R C Bond Harold James 126 L 8-1
6 6 Harlem Rocker Coa E M Pletcher Todd A 126 L 1-1
7 7 Sebastian's Song Clark D Fehr Alec 126 L 12-1
8 8 Pewter Husbands P Bond Harold James 126 L 6-1

CSC 05-29-2008 01:49 PM

On Sunday, if I may add:

HARLEM ROCKER DRAWS POST 6 OF 8 FOR PLATE TRIAL

HARLEM ROCKER, owned by Stronach Stables and Adena Racing Venture II has arrived at WOODBINE and will be heavily favoured for Sunday's PLATE TRIAL.

The light grey son of Macho Uno, undefeated, untested, has his regular EIBAR COA as his partner for the 9 furlong race - race 7 on Sunday, post time 4:03 pm.

CSC 05-29-2008 02:01 PM

BTW nice field in the Nassau, Sealy Hill looks like the horse to beat but that's a strange turf course they have over there so don't count your hens just yet.

Round Pen 05-29-2008 03:43 PM

I can tell you Steve Sealy Hill is Training very Well But she has a mind of her own, She loves the Woodbine Turf and if she buts her best foot forward she should be very tough in this spot.


Round Pen

jwkniska 05-29-2008 03:51 PM

Watch the weather. Dreaming of Anna was going to run in this, but not entered due to it supposed to rain and they didn't want to run on wet turf.

CSC 05-29-2008 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Round Pen
I can tell you Steve Sealy Hill is Training very Well But she has a mind of her own, She loves the Woodbine Turf and if she buts her best foot forward she should be very tough in this spot.


Round Pen

I think Sealy Hill is probably on her second best surface, all of her best races have come on poly, though she will be right there Saturday she doesn't represent much value.

Arravale the one time Del Mar Oaks winner is not certainly the same horse she once was, I have to pass on her as well as she will be no worse than second or third choice.

I like the 2 Attfield horses, Callwood Dancer and Sans Souci Island, just not sure which one is more ready...Throw in Nottawasaga if she is 6-1 or better.

Mike 05-30-2008 11:30 PM

It's The Niagra Queen from this corner, with confidence

docicu3 05-31-2008 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike
It's The Niagra Queen from this corner, with confidence



Really Mike.....The TGH #'s don't seem to be there. If you want long shot material take a look at #8 Sans Sauci (Chester House) who maybe sitting on a very big race here. The other that has my eye is the #5 Caliwood Dancer who ran nicely off a layoff here but ChesterHouse of a layoff has been too good to me to bail at these prices

CSC 05-31-2008 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3
Really Mike.....The TGH #'s don't seem to be there. If you want long shot material take a look at #8 Sans Sauci (Chester House) who maybe sitting on a very big race here. The other that has my eye is the #5 Caliwood Dancer who ran nicely off a layoff here but ChesterHouse of a layoff has been too good to me to bail at these prices

I would go with Callwood Dancer, she's probably in better form than Sans Sauci Island and she is improving. I'm not sure if she is up to beating Sealy Hill or Arravale yet but she will atleast be bettable at a price.

That's where I am leaning towards...

Kasept 05-31-2008 10:46 AM

SUNDAY 7th (4:03) Plate Trial S.

1 1/8 Miles (All Weather Track) | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $150,000

1 1 East End Tap Pizarro T Baker Reade 126 Blk-On L 12-1
2 2 Not Bourbon Jones J Attfield Roger L 126 L 4-1
3 3 Mamma's Knight Baird J DiPasquale Sam 126 L 20-1
4 4 Chasin the Tornado David D J Minshall Barbara J 126 Blk-On L 20-1
5 5 Solitaire Landry R C Bond Harold James 126 L 8-1
6 6 Harlem Rocker Coa E M Pletcher Todd A 126 L 1-1
7 7 Sebastian's Song Clark D Fehr Alec 126 L 12-1
8 8 Pewter Husbands P Bond Harold James 126 L 6-1

Bobby Fischer 05-31-2008 11:11 AM

Harlem Rocker obviously looms large

On "paper" these others will need to hope the track plays a big role.

The tiring surface, the kickback...

Not Bourbon may have talent, but his racing placement shows no hint of longterm thinking toward these races.

Solitaire is at least a big animal who didn't totally flop in a turf race. If he doesn't eat a lot of kickback--> could benefit from a grueling stamina test.

usually i look to oppose, but would like to see the Rocker romp and be a division factor.

Kasept 05-31-2008 02:47 PM

Super race and Callwood Dancer fans win the photo.. Sam-Son's Quiet Jungle ran a big one... Congrats to those that keyed off the winner at 9-1.

CSC 05-31-2008 07:36 PM

Thanks Steve, it was an exciting race.

CSC 05-31-2008 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
Harlem Rocker obviously looms large

On "paper" these others will need to hope the track plays a big role.

The tiring surface, the kickback...

Not Bourbon may have talent, but his racing placement shows no hint of longterm thinking toward these races.

Solitaire is at least a big animal who didn't totally flop in a turf race. If he doesn't eat a lot of kickback--> could benefit from a grueling stamina test.

usually i look to oppose, but would like to see the Rocker romp and be a division factor.

Frankly I don't see much competition for Harlem Rocker tommorow, the only things I am interested in seeing Sunday are how will he handle going 2 turns for the 1st time and how will he handle the polytrack surface. If this horse is as good as some of us believe he is, me included. Tommorow's race will yield some valuable information going towards that opinion.

hockey2315 06-01-2008 10:44 AM

I wonder what they'll do with him if he doesn't handle the poly. . . Maybe just Jim Dandy/Travers. . .

CSC 06-01-2008 11:09 AM

Not Bourbon is the only horse possibly to give him trouble if he gets the jump on HR and Coa is caught sleeping, this horse is a sprinter first as Woodbine Polytrack seems to favor the tactically gifted speed horses, has a good turn of foot, however he is stretching to 1 1/8th and he has the smallish build, not sure if he will hit the wall at some point. Pewter has had 1 big race at GP after being abysmal in his first 2 starts of his career, he looks abit like an abberation if you ask me.

justindew 06-01-2008 03:10 PM

Harlem Rocker off the board.

letswastemoney 06-01-2008 03:19 PM

ouch

the_fat_man 06-01-2008 03:21 PM

Damn, guess his last race wasn't as easy as most thought. :rolleyes:

the_fat_man 06-01-2008 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Or maybe he didn't like the surface. Nah, can't be that.

Exactly, HOSS. I imagine they never put the horse on the surface before the race. Imagine that.

He really should've been in the Preakness.

Hickory Hill Hoff 06-01-2008 03:27 PM

Yeah, he would have been a real threat to BIG Brown in the Preakness :rolleyes:
So much for this fast 3 yr.old

Hickory Hill Hoff 06-01-2008 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man
Exactly, HOSS. I imagine they never put the horse on the surface before the race. Imagine that.

He really should've been in the Preakness.

Yeah, he should have been there.....;)

Hickory Hill Hoff 06-01-2008 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew
Harlem Rocker off the board.

Bridge jumpers! :eek:

mark2061mn 06-01-2008 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
Bridge jumpers! :eek:


$39,000 of the $58,000 in the show pool bet on him, Madison County bridge jumping not Golden Gate.

hockey2315 06-01-2008 04:53 PM

Stronach = Idiot. . . Poor Pletcher. . . Maybe now we'll actually get to see this horse in races that matter.

blackthroatedwind 06-01-2008 04:53 PM

Once again, against his trainer's wishes, Stronach makes a total blunder. He learned absolutely nothing from the race. Is the horse distance challenged or did he hate Polytrack? Who knows.

Belonged in the Preakness. On to the Dwyer now I suppose.

Bobby Fischer 06-01-2008 06:33 PM

well we knew that HR might not like the track, not a huge deal if they are patient, but he lost momentum of his form.

too bad Not Bourbon wasn't pointed toward this series with a longterm strategy, he seems fairly talented. Could use a rest, if we do see him back in this series I think he is very vulnerable.

The Turf horse Solitaire looks like he should do extremely well in this entire canadiant triple crown series against this level.

justindew 06-01-2008 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Once again, against his trainer's wishes, Stronach makes a total blunder. He learned absolutely nothing from the race. Is the horse distance challenged or did he hate Polytrack? Who knows.

Belonged in the Preakness. On to the Dwyer now I suppose.

Maybe he learned not to point for the Queen's Plate. That counts.

CSC 06-01-2008 09:31 PM

If I were handicapping Harlem Rocker's next race today's result would be a throwout. In respect to the horses that finished ahead of him it is not possible that all 3 are better horses than him. It is impossible to conclude why the horse ran so badly, all we know is he is much better than this. There are times a horse runs better second time over a track, since the Queen's Plate was the pointed race from the start that is where he should go in my opinion, the Preakness and Ohio Derby are things of the past. The one positive thing is he will now atleast be bettable if he goes onto the Plate. Even with the question marks if he was declared sound I would back him in Plate at a fair price. Which up until today would never have been imaginable.

CSC 06-01-2008 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
well we knew that HR might not like the track, not a huge deal if they are patient, but he lost momentum of his form.

too bad Not Bourbon wasn't pointed toward this series with a longterm strategy, he seems fairly talented. Could use a rest, if we do see him back in this series I think he is very vulnerable.

The Turf horse Solitaire looks like he should do extremely well in this entire canadiant triple crown series against this level.

I would have serious issues Not Bourbon will get the 1 1/4, I can't see him being effective at that distance.

Bobby Fischer 06-01-2008 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
I would have serious issues Not Bourbon will get the 1 1/4, I can't see him being effective at that distance.

Exactly.

When you have a very talented canadian horse like that, and you have ideas about the Queen's Plate series, you want to

1.gradually stretch him out.

2. get him to rate.- Even if rating means running 24s and 48s and 112s.

3. You want to maybe get him a race on turf.

This was my point about Not Bourbon all along. They just kind of tried to win a decent sprint with him race after race, and never did any of those things.

Even if he is the most talented canadian 3yo, and even if he is able to eventually get 10furlongs, he is being abruptly tested.

he should probably get a layoff or point to 7 furlongs.


(now watch him take home the Can Triple crown :tro::tro::tro:)

CSC 06-01-2008 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
Exactly.

When you have a very talented canadian horse like that, and you have ideas about the Queen's Plate series, you want to

1.gradually stretch him out.

2. get him to rate.- Even if rating means running 24s and 48s and 112s.

3. You want to maybe get him a race on turf.

This was my point about Not Bourbon all along. They just kind of tried to win a decent sprint with him race after race, and never did any of those things.

Even if he is the most talented canadian 3yo, and even if he is able to eventually get 10furlongs, he is being abruptly tested.

he should probably get a layoff or point to 7 furlongs.


(now watch him take home the Can Triple crown :tro::tro::tro:)

Solitaire seems to have the profile to get the distance, I'm willing to wager he will be the favorite for the Plate and not...Not Bourbon.

hockey2315 06-01-2008 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
If I were handicapping Harlem Rocker's next race today's result would be a throwout. In respect to the horses that finished ahead of him it is not possible that all 3 are better horses than him. It is impossible to conclude why the horse ran so badly, all we know is he is much better than this. There are times a horse runs better second time over a track, since the Queen's Plate was the pointed race from the start that is where he should go in my opinion, the Preakness and Ohio Derby are things of the past. The one positive thing is he will now atleast be bettable if he goes onto the Plate. Even with the question marks if he was declared sound I would back him in Plate at a fair price. Which up until today would never have been imaginable.

You're absolutely insane if you think they should run him back in the plate.

CSC 06-01-2008 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315
You're absolutely insane if you think they should run him back in the plate.

Why? They have pointed for this since even before the Withers. I was one that agreed with Pletcher he should had run in the Preakness. I don't think one can read too much into one incredibly bad performance. The Plate makes more sense to me from a financial and prestige point of view than The Dywer. You need to expand to me why it is so insane? If you had told me that before the Preakness I would have agreed, but that race has come and gone, no use being revisionist about that now. Time to move forward if he wins the Plate the goal was achieved.

hockey2315 06-01-2008 10:46 PM

Why waste another start on a track he clearly doesn't like? Get him on the dirt and send him to races he can win that actually matter.

hockey2315 06-01-2008 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
The Plate makes more sense to me from a financial and prestige point of view than The Dywer.

Not if he can't win it. . .

CSC 06-01-2008 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315
Why waste another start on a track he clearly doesn't like? Get him on the dirt and send him to races he can win that actually matter.

That may be the case and then again it may not be, I think you are assuming it was just the track that caused him to run badly. I am not dismissing that either, however I think you need more proof rather than having a knee jerk reaction. The point is they made a decision of having a real possibility of winning the Preakness for the Queens Plate, that was quite a price to pay, to change mid stream again and now point for the Dywer makes no sense to me. Skipping the Preakness for the Dywer cannot be the better option. If this were poker the hand would be pot committed, it's hard to fold now.

hockey2315 06-01-2008 11:14 PM

Why is it hard to fold now? They're not committed at all. And if it's not the surface then the horse is either hurt or he's MUCH worse than lots of people (including me) thought. The fact that they skipped the Preakness should have no bearing on their decision now. It's water under the bridge - now they can either run the horse back on the poly and risk wasting another race (and probably decreasing the value of the horse) - or they can go to the Dwyer and then point to either the Travers or Haskell. There's no reason whatsoever why they can't switch plans and go the Dwyer - which is the much better option - at this point. It's not like they haven't messed around with his schedule before (see Preakness, Ohio Derby).


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