PP'S of all these great ones...
 

if anyone could please post the pp's for these horses it would be great... if not all of them, any of them would be fine.. it would be greatly appreciated.

point given
ghostzapper
artie schiller
azeri
repent
congaree
rosses in may
mineshaft
kittens joy
ten most wanted
silver bullet day
peace rules
GIANTS CAUSEWAY

peace rules and ten most wanted are great??

I thought Peace Rules was a terrific race horse... Not a 'great' in the true sense of the word, but really, really good.

I think you could call the top five from those 13 'great'.. The rest range from near-great to outstanding to very , very good.

1. Point Given
2, Ghostzapper
3. Silverbulletday
4. Congaree
5. Mineshaft

I can't believe you said nothing about Repent!

He never did win a Grade 1 race...and his pair of Grade 2 wins were moderate figure wise.

As you remember, I bet him with great enthusiasim in the BC Juvenile at better than 40/1 only for him to run 2nd to the European Johannesburg.

For the GB/IRE races (and most of the US, they can be hit-and-miss on foreign stuff) of these two, go to www.racingpost.co.uk , register (costs nothing), use the 'Search' box at upper right to get the right horse, and you get PPs. And you can click on each race to get a GB-style chart (no running lines, but lots of comment.)

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/ghostzapper.pdf

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/artieschiller.pdf

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/azeri.pdf

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/congaree.pdf

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/rosesinmay.pdf

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/peacerules.pdf

http://www.drf.com/eclipse/2002/pps/3c.pdf

http://www.drf.com/eclipse/2003/pps/3c.pdf

http://www.drf.com/eclipse/2003/pps/om.pdf

http://www.drf.com/eclipse/2004/pps/3c.pdf

One horse who's form is pretty interesting is Birdstone.



Like War Pass he won the Champagne at age 2 after breaking his maiden first out at Saratoga.

Like War Pass he returned in a manufactored allowance race at Gulfstream Park and beat a weak field at 1/9 odds

Like War Pass he bombed next out as the heavy favorite. He finished 5th beaten double digit lengths in the Lanes End at Turfway Park - behind the likes of Sinister G., Tricky Taboo, and Little Math Man.

In his next three starts, he'd throw a shoe in the mud on Derby day, and swept the Belmont and Travers.

If people want to put a positive spin on the chances of War Pass rebounding, the form of Birdstone would be a pretty good place to start making their case from.

and the same trainer.....

Birdstone really was unfortunate with track conditions in the Lanes End, where they sealed the track ten minutes before post, and the Derby in that slop behind Smarty. He wasn't the most durable horse as is clear by the spacing, but he ran well when given time to work up to big races. I don't think Birdstone was as fast as War Pass was last year, but he has a better pedigree for distance.

buy this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Champions-Perf.../dp/0964849399

ten most wanted is great for me.... had him in the exacta in the belmont

pounded him to win in the travers, with straight exacta with peace rules

thank you, you are the man

I certainly wouldn't call him great, but I always liked TMW too. I like his Mr. Prospector-less pedigree, and he ran some pretty nice races in his career. Of course he had a good scenario in the Travers with Strong Hope and Peace Rules killing each other down the backstretch, but I thought that race and his performace in the Illinois Derby were very good.
It is too bad that the geldings (Funny Cide and Perfect Drift) combined to eliminate any chances he had in the BCC by almost knocking him over in the first turn. He probably wouldn't have beaten the winner that day anyway, but I think he certainly could have gotten a minor share.

i didn't mention him because i didn't want you to get your feelings hurt about that horse.

Looking at Ghostzappers PP's....what ever happen to Clockstopper?

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/clockstopper.pdf

That's his form - as for what happened to him....no clue.

Didn't he show up at the fairgrounds last year in some minor stakes race?

I think so now that you mention it.

He bowed a tendon, they gave him alot of time, brought him back but I believe he rebowed

i liked a lot of those horses more as my own favorites then all time greats

i am shocked... azeri is not great ? i dont care who she beat... she did beat some very good ones though... but anyway
11 grade 1's... if i counted right... as well as a number of grade 2's...

in my opinion she is a legend... i thought for sure 11 grade 1 wins gets you more respect then this

azeri got most of those races out west, in her hoy year, she only travelled as far east as arlington and oaklawn. when she finally came east, she 'wasn't the same'. a lot of people gave excuse after excuse why she wasn't as good as the year before, but maybe she just wasn't as good as people thought. i enjoyed azeri very much, but i wouldn't call her a true great.

When Azeri won her debut by open lengths in 1:08 and change - she paid 17/1 to win - however, someone made a killing with her in the multi-win exotics.

The 7/2 second choice won the next race - and the $2 double paid only $74.40 (the parlay was $168.40)

The 3/2 favorite won the following race - and the $1 pick 3 paid only an absurd $47.40 - almost five times less than the parlay!

Just imagine having a 17/1 shot winner, and than catching a 7/2 second choice, and 3/2 favorite in the next two races and getting less than $50 per pop!

When Brad Free wrote about the race - he noted that the P3 was paying only $106 to an 8/1 shot in the last race of the sequence. Imagine hitting a 17/1 over 7/2 over 8/1 P3 and getting that!

It was very odd stuff - because someone was hammering Azeri in the multi-win exotics - but she was a total lobster in the win pool that day.

ok, but is it just me or are ppl giving her no respect. no one could convince me that i am wrong on this one. she won 11 grade 1's, possible 2 bredders cup distaffs if lukas just runs her there, instead of going in one the deepest classics ever. she won the apple blossom twice, won at the spa. and this poster above is saying she did not travel well, thats not true at all

no, don't put words in my mouth. or posts. when she finally left deseroux, who won the hoy with her and deserves a lot of credit for that, and travelled east, she didn't win like she had on the west coast. many said oh, but last year she was really good, maybe she's tailed off a bit. no, maybe the horses back east were more talented then those she had beat up on out west.
i thought her bc distaff win was very good, i thought she was a very deserving hoy, and got much grief because of it. but when she faced those on the east coast, she no longer looked like the dominating mare she had been in cali.
maybe if she had run in the classic the previous year, she could have won it. it was due to volponi pulling the upset that day that she got hoy..but maybe she wouldn't have.

i gave her plenty of respect when she ran, and took a lot of heat in the discussions about whether she merited HOY that year or not...i thought she did.
but as to whether she belongs in the 'great' category, imo she does not. but that's just my opinion, and in no way am i trying to change yours. i'm just giving you a reason why many would not consider her as great.


also, i think there's a huge difference in giving 'no respect' and not being willing to call a horse 'great'. plenty of room in between.

ok i understand your point and respect it. but in my opinion there is no other word then great to describe her 11 grade 1's says it all in my opinion.

I wouldn't have said Azeri is an all-time great during or after her career - but if you look at how dreadful the fillies and mares have been that have come after her - it starts to push your opinion towards calling her great.

From the 2nd start of her career through the 17th start of her career - she racked up 16 consecutive triple digit Beyer figures and a perfect 9-for-9 record in Grade 1 stake races.

That makes a strong case for her greatness - however, she was beating tremendously moderate horses in a weak division - and the TVG commentators made it unbearable with the way they talked about her.

I know Vic Stauffer wasn't with TVG at the time - but after I heard his nails on the chalkboard "speed of Ruffian, class of Lady's Secret, and heart of Personal Ensign" call - I think it was only a matter of time before he and TVG found each other.

she's certainly better than a lot of horses who have come since. i am very begrudging about giving away 'great' status...i think it's something that should come after some time away from the track--will she still get spoken of years from now? who knows, maybe she will. but yeah, that whole 'speed of ruffian...etc, etc'.. yikes.

How do you think Lava Man felt after Vic called him the original Rags to Riches?

That hurt my eyes to read.

After hearing that in high pitch screaming at the wire in the Gold Cup - Lava Man hasn't been the same since.

Here is a look at Lava Man's early form...note the impressive debut Beyer at the fair circuit...

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/lavaman.pdf