No prying eyes at a private training center
 

Something tells me this is going to be a long thread.

i'd think that biancone being laid off a year would be more than a 'think you know' violation. everyone knows he's a cheater now. i'll take sanctimonious over cheating any day.

a shame that people still want to employ a trainer such as biancone when there are plenty of others out there who do a good job, work hard, and don't have cobra venom stocked in their fridge.

as for sumwon, who ever said she was a derby prospect? probably dusty, cheap beer said so....

What do you think about Private Training Centers Chuck? I've always wondered. I mean, obviously if racetracks had real tests, for the real problems, instead of skirting the issue ( as you pointed out in your other thread ), it wouldn't matter where the horses were trained.

I guess the answer is that, unlike a racetrack, nobody can raid your barn.

The day is coming where more of the top horses are trained away from the tracks over which they run. As that has been accepted, more trainers will move to private training centers that allow them unlimited stall space, freedom to race whereever and whenever they desire without the racetrack putting any pressure on, and being free of any security measures that are taken at the track. It is also can be an anti-suspension device as the authorities can prevent you from training at racetracks but they can not keep you from training at private property though the horses would have to run in someone elses name. Pletcher has most of his best horses at Palm Beach Downs which is a private training center, Dale Romans just bought a place in KY, Nafzger and Ian Wilkes train a lot of their horses off track as does Niall O'Callaghan and many of the guys at Fair Hill like Matz, Klesaris and Shuman. Now I suppose that owning a barn at a place like Fair Hill is different than owning your own land but either way the tracks have lost control over their horse populations and as this trend continues, it will only get worse.

You dont think it is worthy of discussion the news that a huge name in the sport who is currently under suspension in a high profile case has bought a private training facility? I did not comment, only posted the news.

He's pretty huge.

Wasn't Patrick stabled in a private place in Saratoga for many, if not all, the years he was there? Didn't he use the Payson barns.....or is that considered part of the Oklahoma?

The point about racetracks losing control is an interesting one. But, let's face it, they've already lost control, pretty much, at least with Pletcher. He's pretty much used NYRA barns, be it Belmont or the Oklahoma from April through October, as his headquarters to ship wherever he wants. I guess he can do whatever's best for his owners and one could say it's NYRA's responsibility to control that. IMO they haven't protected their interests as well as they could, or should, have. But, I'm sure there's more to the story.

On a tangent, seems to me we're seeing a real fallout at Gulfstream from the lack of talent, or even runners, in Todd's current 3YOs. Considering the vast number of horses he got, and the dearth of actual runners, 3YO races have been very thin, and not even filling ( which is incredible for Gulfstream ). It's a scary glimpse into what can happen when one person gets a lions share of the potential runners.....and for whatever reasons they can't, and don't, run.

I was just talking to Dave about Payson Park (Indiantown, FL.) Apparently, Court Vision has been stabled there and I wondered if it was difficult for the public to get in to see the workouts, etc. I can't blame anyone for wanting their horses away from the track... it seems like it would be a quieter environment and therefore better for high-strung thoroughbreds.

Why should the " public " be allowed on any backstretch....be it a racetrack or not?

She's probably talking about the morning workouts. It's got to be stressful for the horsies to workout in front of thousands of people.

Where does this happen.....and why, pray tell, would that be stressful?

Yes, I was talking about the morning workouts.

There's a handfull of people at the morning works. Maybe Saratoga has a few hundred people....but how that affects the horses in some negative way is beyond me.

There's a handfull of people at the morning works. Maybe Saratoga has a few hundred people....but how that affects the horses in some negative way is beyond me.

I guess having less horses around might be considered better. I wouldn't know for sure.

The Oklahoma training track at Toga was pretty busy in the mornings. I've never been at any other track early in the mornings, so I'm only comparing to that one, but one would think that a quieter environment in the mornings would be less stressful for young horses.

Why shouldn't they?

This is a sport that ought to embrace every single fan friendly thing possible. I'm not just talking about backstretch tours either - if people want to go back there, let the backstretch security ask their reasons - and if it's anything within reason by all means let them observe.

It probably depends on the horse and how they react to other horses in close proximity. I have no clue.

You are kidding....right?

There are millions of dollars worth of horseflesh on backstretches. Allowing unapproved people random access to this is potentially dangerous on many levels. Aside from the overtly obvious, these horses are also racing in betting events, and allowing the entire population access to them opens up the possibility of chicanery.

I'm all for genuine fans being properly escorted around the backstretch in the morning. However, if this isn't carefully controlled in could be a real problem. I know if I owned a lot of expensive horseflesh I wouldn't want every random person to be allowed near them in their barns.

I think you are being a little naive.

If anyone really wanted to do any real "chicanery" - the current security that is in place would NEVER be enough to stop them.

I'm not saying get rid of all security - in fact, anyone who wants back there should have to first talk with a security guard.

Neither would I.

I'm not being naive, and I understand what you're saying, but I still don't believe the public should be allowed unfettered access to the backstretch. It's a place of business, where the participants are prepared for the public part of the business.

I, myself, have got "unfettered" access to the backstretch at both KEE and Saratoga - going barn to barn with no credientals on me and no security in sight. Obviously tracks with expensive horses.

The press collectively does an abysmal job of reporting on when they ought to be reporting on...I think it's a major disservice to an on-track fan to have to rely upon their hackery ... when they can simply use their own legs and find out what they want to find out.

You're also denying the public an oppertunity to observe on their own time. Which should never happen in a sport with dying popularity.

I think it's a little silly to think anyone is going to really disrupt any of the "business" that goes on back there.

You have a point that you want to make and are not taking the time to look at the big picture. Not particularly unusual on the internet.

i think all the snakes would come out from the grass.

What is the big picture? That people should have to spend $30 for a license - which would give them all the unfettered access they want at any circuit in the country - and get them past security no questions asked?

Do tell

In dreams. Because people suck.

I often get frustrated when I can't find the answers to something I want - and I'm often in disagreement on what the press reports on day to day. It's often not bad reporting that frustrates me - but not being able to find out or hear about what I want to know.

If I'm on track - and I really want to know something that hasn't been reported - I will obviously do what I can to try and find out.

On two or three instances, it's meant going to the backside.

That is only a verysmall part of the reason why I think people ought not need to be denied access to the backside. So long as they are sober - and they let a guard know their reasons.

[quote=The Indomitable DrugS]I often get frustrated when I can't find the answers to something I want - and I'm often in disagreement on what the press reports on day to day. It's often not bad reporting that frustrates me - but not being able to find out or hear about what I want to know.

If I'm on track - and I really want to know something that hasn't been reported - I will obviously do what I can to try and find out.

On two or three instances, it's meant going to the backside.

That is only a verysmall part of the reason why I think people ought not need to be denied access to the backside.

So how do you compare this lack of access to other sports? I mean, I get it that they are horses vs humans, but if I can support your being "all access" as a legitimate contributor, why should "people"...assuming you are using that generally, be allowed carte blanche?

Someone might throw a cobra venom dart.
You could then blame the unknown demon.

Based on what trainers hint at, they have more
to fear from employee's from other trainers
than the general public.

I see your point. You pay 30 dollars so that automatically
means your clean. BTW might have had a terrorist fly a
plane into his face, so metal detectors are the next step.
no little bottles of shampoo, take your boots off

Personally I would want to control the number of people
and how close they can get to what can be very skittish animals.
People and animals could get hurt.

People are obviously allowed access at NFL training camps - and spring training in baseball etc. - when it comes down to in-season practices though - of course you can't have people around.

There is an element of secrecy with plays and formations...and the focus is on the team they will play the upcoming week.

It takes only purchasing the cheapest license to get that access on the backside.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...highlight=dart

Agree with BTW here.....

That imbecile doesn't speak for me.

but fans aren't allowed into the locker room-which i would equate to the backstretch. if people want to watch the works, i would think that would be similar to being in the stands watching spring training.
but i see no reason to allow random access to the backside.
besides, liability could cause huge headaches. horses get loose, so a bystander could get run over-then who pays when joe schmo sues? the owner of the horse? the trainer? or the track?

There are some great imaginations on this board...

Of this I have no doubt.