Corinthian or Bernardini
 

Both of the horses have tons of ability and are lightly raced. Which do you think will have a better career?

Not even close, Bernardini in a landslide...

Where is all of this talent I am missing on Corinthian?

Nice horse, but not in the same league as Bernardini...

Really, Corinthian runs about as frequently as Flower Alley, LOL :p

Its not really Corinthian's fault nor Jerkens fault that he suffered a fracture.
Flower Alley had quite an active campaign at age three, much moreso than most of the top three year olds in this business ever have. I believe he raced 10 times at age three. Tim do you wanna compare that number of starts with recent top three year olds? I think you will find it very high.

Corinthian is just an allowance winner. Bernardini is a potential superstar horse. He might turn out to be his main competition though next year. I think both we will back as 4yr olds.

Not too mention they both have 4 starts to their careers....

to me roll the dice, how can you predict...we haven't seen enough of either.

I've loved Corinthian from the start, so I'll keep defending him. If he stays healthy, I think he'll be tough to beat, even for Bernardini.

I haven't seen too much of Corinthian, but I doubt any 3-year-old (or older horse for that matter) touches Bernie around two turns.

LOL! Tim. You know as well as I do that he's being brought back in a cautious manner by Jim J. The injury might have ended his career.
At this point, I'd have to vote for Bernardini. But I'll just have to wait and see. Corinthian might be just ready enough to give us all a thrilling Travers if Bernardini shows up there. I'm patient.
This could be worth the wait.

A horse coming back from injury with one prep race has zero chance against Bernardini. Bernardini is an AP Indy. He probably is going to just keep getting better. The older horses are the only horses with a shot at him, and I don't even see them beating him. His Preakness was as good as Barbaro's Derby.

I was kidding, my point was its hard to get excited about Corinthian until he runs. We can dream all we want but lets save the discussion for when he actually runs.

I am pretty sure I know better than anyone else on here the severity of Corinthian's injury. Geez.

[quote=boldruler]Corinthian is just an allowance winner. Bernardini is a potential superstar horse. He might turn out to be his main competition though next year. I think both we will back as 4yr olds.[/QUOTE}

Well Corinthian did cross the finish line 1st in the FOY. Of course he did get disqualified. I think that it is about equal between the two horses. Bernardini did win a depleated Preakness field. Should be interesting if Corinthian comes back healthy.

[quote=eurobounce]
Corinthian has a ton of talent. Might be a great horse one day but Bernardini has already proven his is a great horse. His last two wins displayed talent that very few horses have had in a years. His Preakness was as good as they get.

Lets not get carried away. That was one of the worst Preakness fields ever. Add in that the best horse broke down and Brother Derek nearly fell on him, and you have a very inconsequential outcome.

Before you deem Bernardini great, he has to do more. Before that he beat Luxemburg who just came back recently and got clobbered by a horse not even mentioned when you talk about good 3 year olds- Fabulous Strike.

Tim I dunno how you judge races but Luxembourg wasn't clobbered. he was beaten a couple of lengths off the layoff in a race that went in wicked fast time after being left at the gate. It was a very nice race for him to build on to stretch out. He wasn't going to ring him out in an allowance race off the layoff with a sharp lone speed horse going short.

Competition doesnt matter IMO due to the way he did it. Final quarter in 24:34. Rocketed to the front for Castellano - plus I dont consider this field (Sweetnorthernsaint, Bro Derek, Like Now) that weak - 2 of the Derby favorites right there.

I am well aware of Fabulous Strike, he helped put $1K in my pocket that day. Luxemburg really is not a 6F horse in my opinion and FS is one of the best out there. Bernardini is great. As good as Barbaro.

To be precise the race went in 1:08:3 and he was beaten 3 1/4 lengths. Thats a pretty nice performance off a little layoff at a distance that was not his forte. I think Lux will be super tough the next time he runs in a stretchout race.

True Mike, very true. He obviously has him pointing towards bigger 2 turn races down the line. I shouldnt have used the word clobbered giving the situation with the layoff and the short distance. For a comeback race it was fine and he was gaining ground, albeit the race was over, in deep stretch.

They needed a prep for a future stakes race and even though it was too short for him and he had to go wide he ran very very well in a fast race. Hes a very nice horse.

Lux is very talented. Their other Dontfearthereaper though has been a major disappointment.

One of the worst Preakness fields ever?

Timmy, who else would you like to have seen in the Preakness that wasn't there? You had the top three choices from the Derby. Who was missing? Lawyer Ron? Sinister Minister? :rolleyes:

I believe he broke his maiden the day I sat with you and had coffee at UG.
That was one heck of a race. I think it was at Gulfstream.

Well ateam, the derby winner broke down 200 yards out of the gate and Brother Derek nearly fell down on him. Take those 2 out of the race and I'd say yes, it was very weak. Never been all that goo goo over SweetNorthernSaint.

Let me say that I absolutely adore Corinthian - he's incredibly talented and well-bred and if he keeps his mind on racing, he will win many stakes. This is no knock on him. However, Bernardini has just impressed me incredibly in so many ways.
As an AP Indy, I'd followed him from his first start (which I didn't see) ; his 2nd start seemed pretty spectacular, but who knows with impressive maiden breakers? When I saw him in the post-parade for the Withers, I was floored. He's absolutely the most striking, beautiful horse I've ever seen (check out the head shot in the Preakness BH); his move to win that race was really something to see. I honestly thought he'd be a really good 3 year old (after that), Barbaro or not. I thought he would acquit himself nicely in the Preakness........but I never expected to see what I saw that day. Barbaro would have had a tough time beating Bernardini (not that he wouldn't have, but it would have been a great race). Bernardini's move was breathtaking; as soon as he started it, I knew the race was over.

All that being said, I really think he towers above his contemporaries. I'm afraid of being overconfident, however, because he's still just a horse and he very well could have a bad day or two. He's a potentially great horse; I hope he gets a chance to prove it. Just based on what I've seen on the track, Bernardini will be the better racehorse, but Corinthian will win his share.

Good post Betsy!
Nothing to disagree with.

BERNARDINI...emphatically....not much debate here IMO

Corinthian barely beat a horrible bunch of 3YOs this winter at GP, while Bernardini has trashed all comers, including drawing off to an overwhelming and fast win in the Preakness in just his 4th lifetime start.....nuff said

I wouldn't call Jazil, First Sam, and a few others terrible. Jazil was beaten pretty badly by him. Barbaro and Showing Up also came from GP this winter although he never raced them. Corinthian just isn't proven like Bernardini. I do agree though that Bernardini is a special horse. Barbaro and Bernardini might be two of the top 3yr olds in a long time.

"Barbaro and Bernardini might be two of the top 3yr olds in a long time."

You really think Bernardini is as good as Smarty or Alex for that matter? I mean one big win in a race marred by a tragic breakdown and the next logical contender nearly tripping over him losing any chance he may have had?

Wont argue with you about Barbaro. To me he did enough.

Bernardini also came up through GP this winter....Jazil clearly has improved and probably was up against it closing into that often present GP surface, while First Samurai still must prove that he is a graded stakes performer around two turns, which is VERY arguable at this point....I'm actualy one who believes he can route but hje has to prove that he can...his FOY was not a good effort IMO....Flashy Bull is the epitome if mediocre and Rehoboth and horses like that aren't much either....Oh, and Sunriver showed that he was definately a bit overrated...Corinthian really beat nothing that gave him a challenge in that race IMO...

He is also a freakin' headcase and is a Pulpit - which means that he is probably fragile as all get out.....can't say that makes for me to be a huge fan of this horse, and to mention his name in the same sentence with Bernardini right now is actually discreditting to Bernardini IMO...

Personally, I think Bernardini is about 10 lengths superior to Corinthian...Hey, its just my opinion, but I am very surpirsed that this is even a debate at this point that has garnered multiple posts....

Bernardini's talent level versus Discreet Cat's talent level may be the better argument at this point IMO...

The FOY was a negative key race and Bernardini blew away a solid Preakness field w/a huge figure. Not even remotely close between the two.

You have to be kidding. Discreet Cat better than Corinthian. Please explain this to me.

A guy connected to Barbaro told me Bernardini might be even better than him on the dirt. They still think Barbaro was the most talented horse on turf they have ever seen.

What is there to explain?..Check the pps and you'll see that its not even really close at this point....Discreet Cat was easily the most impressive maiden winner last summer at the Spa, running 1:09 and change and destroying his rivals first out and earning a VERY fasy speed fig. for that time of the year for a firster....Then, he came backand absolutely jogged in both of his Dubai starts, which included CRUSHING top older handicap horse Invasor and the previously undefeated Champion Simpatico Bribon and all other comers with absolute ease and is undefeated and unchallenged to this point....What more do you want?

Corinthian has been average to good at this point in his career at best....They are both fragile animals that probably won't have long, friutful careers, but I think there is ZERO doubt that Discreet Cat must be considered heads and shoulders better than Corinthian until proven otherwise...just my opinion but I've gotta believe that most would agree...

I have to tell you that I agree with just about every word of this statement....nice post!!! Barbaro was breath-taking on grass and I really thought that the sky was the limit on that surface, yet while I appreciated his Derby win, I am one who believes that Bernardini would have still beaten him in the Preakness and probably was a better dirt horse.....that opinion won't be taken well on this chatboard but I really do...Nice post!

I hate the argument that Bernardini beat a weak field......huh? SNS is a very nice horse, a genuine graded stakes horse and Brother Derek is very accomplished. If they were over the top or tired going into the Preakness, then their trainers shouldn't have run them, given that they had no chance for the Triple Crown. Since both trainers had no interest in seeing their colts hurt, I assume that they were both in good shape for the Preakness. No excuse. Remember that Bernardini had had zero starts around two turns, limited racing experience period and was an unknown classwise. He won the Preakness on sheer talent alone.

I've never seen Barbaro's turf races but I was shocked at his stride in the Derby -that horse had a turf stride if any horse ever has. Too bad that he and Bernardini never got to hook up; they might have been really good for racing.

Another statement that I agree with every single word....Good Post!

Until Corinthian comes back and accomplishes more on the track, it's Bernardini..

Thanks, Joel. I'm completely biased towards Bernardini, so maybe this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but........I think he could be a big shot in the arm for racing. So far, we've seen a lot of the down side of racing : Barbaro's breakdown, injuries left and right...things that make you wonder why you follow the horses in the first place (it's so frustrating). Racing deserves to have a horse like Bernardini stay healthy and do great things; it's about time, isn't it, that we stop talking about a horse's potential and start talking about his performance? Potential is not a word I like to hear in sports- it implies that the talent within the athlete goes unfulfilled. That's depressing. One good thing about Bernardini is that the Sheikh's are pretty sporting - if healthy, I see them running him as a 4 year old. That might be something to see.