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The Indomitable DrugS 08-15-2007 04:07 PM

Any Given Saturday
 
Yet another to be bought by the Maktoums.

Details on DRF's website.

miraja2 08-15-2007 04:09 PM

"As for whether the colt would compete in 2008, Darley stallion nominations manager Charlie Boden said Wednesday: 'That's a possibility, but nothing's been decided yet. It depends on how he's doing.'"

Wonderful.

The Indomitable DrugS 08-15-2007 04:14 PM

Don't they also have Street Sense and Hard Spun after this year?

How long until they secure Curlin?

Rudeboyelvis 08-15-2007 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
How long until they secure Curlin?

1 minute after the Breeder's Cup

letswastemoney 08-15-2007 04:39 PM

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

DiscreetCat=Monster 08-15-2007 05:42 PM

I think these guys could probally buy every horse that wins a stake race and still not affect the lifestyle they live. I am surprised they haven't bought or built there own full scale racetrack. I heard Magna might sell some of theirs wouldn't surprise me if Sheik buys one and has another huge day of racing

Danzig 08-15-2007 07:20 PM

and they're supposed to be building a bigger and better version over there.

Danzig 08-15-2007 07:23 PM

'Any Given Saturday's future will be evaluated after the Breeders' Cup.'

letswastemoney 08-15-2007 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
'Any Given Saturday's future will be evaluated after the Breeders' Cup.'

:p :p

Sightseek 08-15-2007 07:29 PM

Even if Darley does retire him after the BC, does anyone honestly think Win-Star was going to keep him around racing for another year had Darley not bought him?

ArlJim78 08-15-2007 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek
Even if Darley does retire him after the BC, does anyone honestly think Win-Star was going to keep him around racing for another year had Darley not bought him?

No.

Danzig 08-15-2007 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney
:p :p

yeah, i bet they put that out with a straight face!

and yes, he most likely would be done regardless of who owned him.

Indian Charlie 08-15-2007 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
Any Given Saturday.

But not next Saturday.


and not the first saturday in may either.

The Indomitable DrugS 08-15-2007 09:11 PM

He got the offical 'DrugS Derby endorsement' that is so coveted --- and proceed to run BY FAR the worst performance of any DrugS Derby endorsement horse this entire decade!

He really should be ashamed.

He'll go down in the history books as the horse who recived the DrugS Derby endorsement the year after Discreet Cat recieved it.

ELA 08-15-2007 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek
Even if Darley does retire him after the BC, does anyone honestly think Win-Star was going to keep him around racing for another year had Darley not bought him?

As said, no, which as we have all discussed in great detail is part of the major problem in this industry. Whether due to injury or by choice, a 4yo campaign is just not economically feasible. They would be tremendouly rewarded for retiring the horse.

Not that I was a big fan prior to, but that performance in the Haskell was very impressive.

Eric

Cannon Shell 08-15-2007 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELA
As said, no, which as we have all discussed in great detail is part of the major problem in this industry. Whether due to injury or by choice, a 4yo campaign is just not economically feasible. They would be tremendouly rewarded for retiring the horse.

Not that I was a big fan prior to, but that performance in the Haskell was very impressive.

Eric

Actually it is economically feasible for the new owners.

However, they are just interested with accumulating as many potential stallions as they can to try to one up Coolmore in the only area where they have been deficent. (other than winning the Derby)

ELA 08-15-2007 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Actually it is economically feasible for the new owners.

However, they are just interested with accumulating as many potential stallions as they can to try to one up Coolmore in the only area where they have been deficent. (other than winning the Derby)

Yes, it is economically "feasible" for the new owners -- you are right. They can "afford" to ignore economics and race the horse as a 4yo -- but of course you are right again, and they won't.

Eric

Cannon Shell 08-15-2007 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELA
Yes, it is economically "feasible" for the new owners -- you are right. They can "afford" to ignore economics and race the horse as a 4yo -- but of course you are right again, and they won't.

Eric

Just about anything is economically feasible for them

AeWingnut 08-15-2007 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Actually it is economically feasible for the new owners.

However, they are just interested with accumulating as many potential stallions as they can to try to one up Coolmore in the only area where they have been deficent. (other than winning the Derby)

How many mares do you need?

Cannon Shell 08-15-2007 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
How many mares do you need?

I need about 8 more but I'm pretty poor

ELA 08-15-2007 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Just about anything is economically feasible for them

Although I don't play anywhere near that level, what I find very disturbing (as many others do as well), is the cause/effect of how the marketplace has been completely distorted -- at various points on the spectrum. We have seen it in buying promising racehorses (Discreet Cat), and in the broodmare marketplace (Ashado), and the stallion marketplace (how many do we have to name here, LOL).

Unlike others, I admit that if I ended up with a promising superstar, although I have done very well for myself, my family, business, horses, personal investments, real estate, etc. -- not selling for some scary number would be a poor decision. Being a "sportsmen" becomes unfeasible. It's similar to the people who say if they ever won the lottery, they wouldn't quit their job. Easy to say, but being in the financial/estate/tax/etc. field, I can tell you it's different when you are actually wearing the shoes as opposed to dreaming or projecting about wearing the shoes.

The same with a top 3yo. Although I would enjoy the incredible ride and would love to race him as a 4yo -- it just becomes extremely difficult, if not impossible.

It's not just the marketplace, but the entire industry and sport that needs a "correction" so to speak.

Eric

AeWingnut 08-15-2007 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I need about 8 more but I'm pretty poor

well, if you are poor I hate to ask what that makes the rest of us.(me)
I was just curious what the ratio of mares to stallions were.

I think they retire horses to stud at 3 (sometimes 2) because if they go on to race at 4 they don't make the money they can as a stallion. He may prove less valuable every time he runs, risks getting beat or injured in the worse way.

a bird in the hand

Cannon Shell 08-15-2007 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELA
Although I don't play anywhere near that level, what I find very disturbing (as many others do as well), is the cause/effect of how the marketplace has been completely distorted -- at various points on the spectrum. We have seen it in buying promising racehorses (Discreet Cat), and in the broodmare marketplace (Ashado), and the stallion marketplace (how many do we have to name here, LOL).

Unlike others, I admit that if I ended up with a promising superstar, although I have done very well for myself, my family, business, horses, personal investments, real estate, etc. -- not selling for some scary number would be a poor decision. Being a "sportsmen" becomes unfeasible. It's similar to the people who say if they ever won the lottery, they wouldn't quite their job. Easy to say, but being in the financial/estate/tax/etc. field, I can tell you it's different when you are actually wearing the shoes as opposed to dreaming or projecting about wearing the shoes.

The same with a top 3yo. Although I would enjoy the incredible ride and would love to race him as a 4yo -- it just becomes extremely difficult, if not impossible.

It's not just the marketplace, but the entire industry and sport that needs a "correction" so to speak.

Eric

Very well put.

Cannon Shell 08-15-2007 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
well, if you are poor I hate to ask what that makes the rest of us.(me)
I was just curious what the ratio of mares to stallions were.

I think they retire horses to stud at 3 (sometimes 2) because if they go on to race at 4 they don't make the money they can as a stallion. He may prove less valuable every time he runs, risks getting beat or injured in the worse way.

a bird in the hand

I understand what you are saying but overpaying for a horse then using the fact that you may have overpaid and dont want to lose value as a basis for early retirement is questionable.

As Eric says in his previous post, the majority of owners cannot turn down huge sums of money but the billionaires that talk about value and such are simply bad for the game in the long run.

pgardn 08-15-2007 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I need about 8 more but I'm pretty poor

Your cousin is not poor.
Call a timeout and get him in the game.

AeWingnut 08-16-2007 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I understand what you are saying but overpaying for a horse then using the fact that you may have overpaid and dont want to lose value as a basis for early retirement is questionable.

As Eric says in his previous post, the majority of owners cannot turn down huge sums of money but the billionaires that talk about value and such are simply bad for the game in the long run.

Thanks for understanding wha I am saying. It is a challenge.

just to be clear. I was not being complmentary. I think it is a sham and agree that it is bad for racing.

Also, this is why I wonder why anyone would take a horse to a freshman sire that hasn't proven anything in the shed. How many drop from their initial offering and how many jump up like Storm Cat. Why take your horse to AGS when Distorted Humor (I think) is the one that produced AGS. Now that I have said this I am sure AGS will go on to be the leading sire of 2010.

NoChanceToDance 08-16-2007 06:16 AM

Is anyone else completely shocked that WinStar sold a decent stallion prospect? They are know for keeping their horses and standing them as stallions after they are retired.

I'm guessing the Darley offer would have to have been around $35-40million for WinStar to accept the offer, i might be wrong but it must have been HUGE for them to say yes.

He would have retired at the end of this year if either operation had ownership of him.

I'm convinced they will get Curlin asap, too. They are desperate to get the leading first season sire in America and with Hard Spun, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, and maybe Curlin that objective looks reachable and i hope for American breeding they do it, because if they don't they will begin try to purchase every single high class 3yo until they do get a top freshman.

Their domination of the sport (as far as money is concerned) in Britain is well documented. I'm pretty sure the same tactics will soon be evident in the US, too.

NoChanceToDance 08-16-2007 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
Thanks for understanding wha I am saying. It is a challenge.

just to be clear. I was not being complmentary. I think it is a sham and agree that it is bad for racing.

Also, this is why I wonder why anyone would take a horse to a freshman sire that hasn't proven anything in the shed. How many drop from their initial offering and how many jump up like Storm Cat. Why take your horse to AGS when Distorted Humor (I think) is the one that produced AGS. Now that I have said this I am sure AGS will go on to be the leading sire of 2010.

It's a risk, but it could turn out to be very profitable. If you plan to sell the resulting colt/filly as a foal or yearling it's almost certain that you will get more if it is by a freshman. In this game it's all about taking risks with stallions, freshman sires will always be in demand.

Over in Europe, everyone is banking on Hurricane Run to prove himself. I think his yearlings will sell very very well. It seems like every mare owner wants to go to him.

NoChanceToDance 08-16-2007 10:47 AM

Has anyone heard the actual price paid for AGS?

Rumour is $50million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If that is true, it is becoming a joke.

He was worth a lot of money and you can be sure that winstar wouldn't have let him go for any less than his value and much more on top, so $50milllion might not be too far off.

You guys better hope that he or one of the others sires the Derby winner in 2011 or there will be trouble!!

Danzig 08-16-2007 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
Has anyone heard the actual price paid for AGS?

Rumour is $50million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If that is true, it is becoming a joke.

He was worth a lot of money and you can be sure that winstar wouldn't have let him go for any less than his value and much more on top, so $50milllion might not be too far off.

You guys better hope that he or one of the others sires the Derby winner in 2011 or there will be trouble!!

no way it's that high. smarty jones didn't even go for that much. then look at hard spun--word was about 18 million, and about twice that for street sense.

Danzig 08-16-2007 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
Is anyone else completely shocked that WinStar sold a decent stallion prospect? They are know for keeping their horses and standing them as stallions after they are retired.

I'm guessing the Darley offer would have to have been around $35-40million for WinStar to accept the offer, i might be wrong but it must have been HUGE for them to say yes.

He would have retired at the end of this year if either operation had ownership of him.

I'm convinced they will get Curlin asap, too. They are desperate to get the leading first season sire in America and with Hard Spun, Street Sense, Any Given Saturday, and maybe Curlin that objective looks reachable and i hope for American breeding they do it, because if they don't they will begin try to purchase every single high class 3yo until they do get a top freshman.

Their domination of the sport (as far as money is concerned) in Britain is well documented. I'm pretty sure the same tactics will soon be evident in the US, too.

i'm thinking lane's end for curlin, as padua is part owner, and likes to deal with that farm--that's where paduas exchange rate went. but then again, vindication went to hill n dale, so who knows?

Sightseek 08-16-2007 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
i'm thinking lane's end for curlin, as padua is part owner, and likes to deal with that farm--that's where paduas exchange rate went. but then again, vindication went to hill n dale, so who knows?


Didn't they just move their entire operation to KY?

Danzig 08-16-2007 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek
Didn't they just move their entire operation to KY?


yep

wonder if a potential deal for curlin will be held up while the two lawyers deal with their 'issues'? after all, there could really be an impact on curlin because of their legal problems.

NoChanceToDance 08-16-2007 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
no way it's that high. smarty jones didn't even go for that much. then look at hard spun--word was about 18 million, and about twice that for street sense.

I wouldn't be so sure. Win Star were so excited to be standing him as a sire next year, they would not have accepted a bid unless it was sky high. I'd go as far as saying they wouldn't have accepted anything lower than twice his true value.

Don't forget, if Hard Spun wins a Gr1 before he retires, the price goes up another $15million, doesn't it?

I really wouldn't be surprised if it were close to $50million.

Win Star wouldn't get rid of a really good stallion prospect unless the offer couldn't be turned down

Danzig 08-16-2007 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
I wouldn't be so sure. Win Star were so excited to be standing him as a sire next year, they would not have accepted a bid unless it was sky high. I'd go as far as saying they wouldn't have accepted anything lower than twice his true value.

Don't forget, if Hard Spun wins a Gr1 before he retires, the price goes up another $15million, doesn't it?

I really wouldn't be surprised if it were close to $50million.

Win Star wouldn't get rid of a really good stallion prospect unless the offer couldn't be turned down

rumor was that street sense was in the mid-30's. based on that, i just don't think AGS would go for that much--no way to justify him being 14 or so mill higher than the derby/bcj winner.
winstar may have been excited--but my gosh, 50 million?! no way. the stud fee that would require in order to even break even would be amazing--even with shuttling to australia where they can't command the same stud fee as here. most farms want to break even on purchase price within 3/4 years. think about the stud fee, mares to cover, need to shuttle to make that 50 mill.
any given saturday is no fupeg.

and win star would take the money, rather than work at making a stallion--which is risky-- if it's all right there in one lump sum.

Indian Charlie 08-16-2007 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
Has anyone heard the actual price paid for AGS?

Rumour is $50million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If that is true, it is becoming a joke.

He was worth a lot of money and you can be sure that winstar wouldn't have let him go for any less than his value and much more on top, so $50milllion might not be too far off.

You guys better hope that he or one of the others sires the Derby winner in 2011 or there will be trouble!!

if one of those sires sires a derby winner in 2011, their stud fee would skyrocket to about 50 million.

then again, their first 3yos wont be running in the derby until 2012, the year the world is supposed to end.

there will be a triple crown winner in 2011 at least, just not by one of those 2yos from those sires you mentioned.

Danzig 08-16-2007 08:00 PM

all i know is, if darley is indeed shelling out this kind of money to buy up all the breeding stock in order to 'knock off' coolmore they are

a-idiots
b-letting emotion get the best of them
and
c-too rich for their own good.

AeWingnut 08-16-2007 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance
It's a risk, but it could turn out to be very profitable. If you plan to sell the resulting colt/filly as a foal or yearling it's almost certain that you will get more if it is by a freshman. In this game it's all about taking risks with stallions, freshman sires will always be in demand.

Over in Europe, everyone is banking on Hurricane Run to prove himself. I think his yearlings will sell very very well. It seems like every mare owner wants to go to him.


very true. So we get expensive freshamn sires and expensive yearlings and when they finally get to the track they are Green Monkeying all over the place


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