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-   -   Fallon barred from British racing (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1530)

Bigsmc 07-03-2006 01:00 PM

Fallon barred from British racing
 
from the BBC:

Fallon barred from British racing
Kieren Fallon has been suspended by the Horseracing Regulatory Authority from all racing in Britain after being charged with conspiracy to defraud.
The ex-champion jockey is one of eight people charged by City of London Police over race-fixing allegations.

The HRA has also suspended fellow jockeys Fergal Lynch and Darren Williams, who face the same charge along with trainer Alan Berry.

The jockeys face specially arranged HRA appeal hearings on Friday 7 July.

Berry's hearing is scheduled for Tuesday 4 July.


As far as we are concerned, Fallon is innocent until proven guilty
Denis Egan
Irish Turf Club chief executive

Former racing syndicate director Miles Rodgers, Lynch's brother Shaun, farrier Steve O'Sullivan and Philip Sherkle, 39, are the other people charged with the same offences.
All those charged by police have been bailed and are due to appear in court on 17 July.

Fallon is licensed as a jockey in Ireland, and the Irish Turf Club has confirmed he will be able to continue riding there.

Irish Turf Club chief executive Denis Egan said: "As far as we are concerned, Fallon is innocent until proven guilty."

The Jockeys' Association of Great Britain said: "We believe the example set by the Irish Turf Club in allowing Kieren Fallon to maintain his licence pending a conclusion to this matter is a sensible and fair approach.

"It would then be a matter for the employers in the sport as to whether they support such riders."

The 41-year-old Fallon, a six-time champion jockey, flew in from Ireland on Monday after winning a second successive Irish Derby on Sunday on board Dylan Thomas.


In addition, Rodgers, 37, Joanne Richardson, 27, Darren Armitage, 41, and Brian Pilkington, 70, have been charged over an offence relating to money laundering allegations.

City of London Police confirmed that 17 of the 28 people who answered bail on Monday have been released and are no longer involved in the case.

They include jockey Robert Winston, former rider Paul Bradley, amateur rider Dale Jewett and trainer Karl Burke.

The investigation, which began in September 2004, has examined allegations of conspiracy to defraud involving more than 80 races over two years.

During the investigation, more than 130 police officers raided 19 addresses across Suffolk, North Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and Hertfordshire.

Detective Chief Superintendent Steve Wilmott of City of London Police said the investigation - the largest of its type undertaken by the force - had started when Betfair approached the Jockey Club.

He said: "In early 2004, Betfair, an internet betting exchange, brought to the attention of the Jockey Club a number of what they considered to be irregular betting patterns.

"The security department of the Jockey Club undertook an investigation and came to the conclusion that there was potential criminality that could undermine the integrity of horse racing."

He added that Monday's events had followed consultation with the Crown Prosecution Service and a leading QC over whether charges should be brought.

During the investigation, 34 arrests were made, more than 500 interviews undertaken, at least 1,300 statements obtained, and almost 40,000 pages of evidence passed to the CPS.

paisjpq 07-03-2006 01:14 PM

wow. I'm not saying that these allegation's are true or not or that my story has any relevance whatsoever... I would just like to share this. I have a friend--more of an aquaintance really who is from Malaysia. In her native country she held an assist. trainers liscense and a jock's liscense and said she was approached all the time to affect the outcome of races and that she made a significant amount of cash when she played along.

Cunningham Racing 07-03-2006 01:20 PM

Link?............

Bigsmc 07-03-2006 01:50 PM

Sorry Joel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/othe...ng/5132764.stm

Scav 07-03-2006 01:51 PM

Unreal...maybe he will come here now and we can score on his horses like we were when he rode Gulfstream

brockguy 07-03-2006 01:55 PM

I don think its as bad as its made out. Top news story tonight ahead of the tragedy in Valencia. Im pretty sure that he'll be found innocent esp with Coolmore's backing. There is always an air of suspicion around Fallon that he just cant seem to eradicate..

my miss storm cat 07-03-2006 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy
Im pretty sure that he'll be found innocent esp with Coolmore's backing. There is always an air of suspicion around Fallon that he just cant seem to eradicate..

Of course he will.....

oracle80 07-03-2006 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
Unreal...maybe he will come here now and we can score on his horses like we were when he rode Gulfstream

Scav you aren't serious are you? WHen he rode at Gulf he was tragic. He looked like a monkey trying to **** a football.

my miss storm cat 07-03-2006 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
Scav you aren't serious are you? WHen he rode at Gulf he was tragic. He looked like a monkey trying to **** a football.

Oh I'm sorry..... that reminded me of Jamie Spencer on poor Antonius Pius in the BC Mile...... :D

(Jamie is much improved... no disrespect).

(Well, maybe just a little.....) :p

SentToStud 07-03-2006 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
Scav you aren't serious are you? WHen he rode at Gulf he was tragic. He looked like a monkey trying to **** a football.

lol... nothing beats the old monkey ****ing a football visual....it was a couple years ago at Gulf. Bailey's agent was booking for Fallon, as I recall. JDB got off to a bit of a slow start and that was the end of that.

Downthestretch55 07-03-2006 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
Scav you aren't serious are you? WHen he rode at Gulf he was tragic. He looked like a monkey trying to **** a football.

LMFAO!!!!!! Post of the week!

oracle80 07-03-2006 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat
Oh I'm sorry..... that reminded me of Jamie Spencer on poor Antonius Pius in the BC Mile...... :D

(Jamie is much improved... no disrespect).

(Well, maybe just a little.....) :p

AFter watching spencer on pius and the other one he destroyed that day, I came to the conclusion that my stance against suicide might not be completely with merit. Spencer is somewhere on the chain between amoeba and algae. I wanna know who it was that decided that he ought to be a jockey. WHoever it was is a very bad judge of talent.

my miss storm cat 07-03-2006 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
AFter watching spencer on pius and the other one he destroyed that day, I came to the conclusion that my stance against suicide might not be completely with merit. Spencer is somewhere on the chain between amoeba and algae. I wanna know who it was that decided that he ought to be a jockey. WHoever it was is a very bad judge of talent.

Powerscourt is still in therapy from that first run in the Arlington Million.....

oracle80 07-03-2006 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat
Powerscourt is still in therapy from that first run in the Arlington Million.....

Spencer's rides on him(twice) and on Pius still make me nauseous when I think of them. Anyone who bet those horses now knows how Ned Beatty felt in Deliverance. "Come on boy!! You can do better than that!!! Squeal!!!!! Go weeeeeeeeeeee!!!"

brockguy 07-03-2006 02:58 PM

Spencer is improving but throws in some absolutely shocking rides more often than any top jockey over here.. He was Royal Ascot top jock but had something like six seconds, half of which should have won..

Downthestretch55 07-03-2006 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockguy
Spencer is improving but throws in some absolutely shocking rides more often than any top jockey over here.. He was Royal Ascot top jock but had something like six seconds, half of which should have won..

I wonder if he went to the same riding school as Garret Gomez.

Not that GG is a bad rider. He's thrown a few clunkers too.
Just inconsistent.

oracle80 07-03-2006 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
I wonder if he went to the same riding school as Garret Gomez.

Not that GG is a bad rider. He's thrown a few clunkers too.
Just inconsistent.

GG looks like Arcaro/Cordero one race and a ten pound bug boy the next. I just can't for the life of me figure out how someone so talented can be so Jekyl and Hydish.

Downthestretch55 07-03-2006 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
GG looks like Arcaro/Cordero one race and a ten pound bug boy the next. I just can't for the life of me figure out how someone so talented can be so Jekyl and Hydish.

Agree Mike.
The one that doesn't seem to get the credit in my opinion is Eibar Coa.
Sure, he rides rough at times..but his desire to win with whatever he's on is evident.

Then there was an earlier thread comparing Gomez to Prado.... gimme a break!
Is there really a comparison?
Edgar P is the BEST!

Seattleallstar 07-03-2006 04:24 PM

King Kieren is only 2nd to Frankie Dettori

3rd best jocks is JR Velasquez

Rupert Pupkin 07-03-2006 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
Agree Mike.
The one that doesn't seem to get the credit in my opinion is Eibar Coa.
Sure, he rides rough at times..but his desire to win with whatever he's on is evident.

Then there was an earlier thread comparing Gomez to Prado.... gimme a break!
Is there really a comparison?
Edgar P is the BEST!

You are right that you can't compare Gomez to Prado. Gomez has 100x more talent than Prado. I have to hand it to Prado though, for a guy that does not have that much talent, he is certainly an overachiever. He is obviously an intelligent rider and he usually gives good rides in big races. He may not look great coming down the lane, but he gets the job done. In terms of talent, I don't think Prado is in the league of Gomez, Espinoza, Valenzuela, etc.

Rupert Pupkin 07-03-2006 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
Unreal...maybe he will come here now and we can score on his horses like we were when he rode Gulfstream

As Oracle said, Fallon couldn't win a race at Gulfstream. He was so frustrated that he ended up leaving early.

oracle80 07-03-2006 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
You are right that you can't compare Gomez to Prado. Gomez has 100x more talent than Prado. I have to hand it to Prado though, for a guy that does not have that much talent, he is certainly an overachiever. He is obviously an intelligent rider and he usually gives good rides in big races. He may not look great coming down the lane, but he gets the job done. In terms of talent, I don't think Prado is in the league of Gomez, Espinoza, Valenzuela, etc.

But Rupert, talent doesnt win races, good rides do. I know Gomez has talent, but at what point do his indefensibly and inexplicably bad rides become unforgivable?
Part of being a professional in any walk of life is to be mentally prepared for your job. Obviously Edgar, Johnny, and the others read the DRF and study pp's and go out there with he right frame of mind. GG is streaky which is the mark of an unstable guy or manic guy. He seems to get in a groove and then just lose it. Thats not acceptable at the highets level of the game. Prado lacks his strength and timing but his rides are well planned and executed and delivered. I dont give a rats ass about talent, give me the hard working guy who just gets the damn job done. Thats what America is all about, a point that should not be forgotten on this country's birthday.

Scav 07-03-2006 05:28 PM

I thought he won a couple, I must have had him in those races for me to have that opinion then...I know he won 3-5 races, maybe I had him in those races and formed a gamblers opinion

Bold Brooklynite 07-03-2006 05:31 PM

This is the first I've heard about this ... and all I know is what I've read here ... but ...

... from the apparent thoroughness of the investigation conducted by the British police ... I wouldn't wager that anyone named as a suspect is completely innocent.

'Tis a shame ... thoroughbred racing doesn't need any more beatings than it has already endured.

Bold Brooklynite 07-03-2006 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
But Rupert, talent doesnt win races, good rides do. I know Gomez has talent, but at what point do his indefensibly and inexplicably bad rides become unforgivable?
Part of being a professional in any walk of life is to be mentally prepared for your job. Obviously Edgar, Johnny, and the others read the DRF and study pp's and go out there with he right frame of mind. GG is streaky which is the mark of an unstable guy or manic guy. He seems to get in a groove and then just lose it. Thats not acceptable at the highets level of the game. Prado lacks his strength and timing but his rides are well planned and executed and delivered. I dont give a rats ass about talent, give me the hard working guy who just gets the damn job done. Thats what America is all about, a point that should not be forgotten on this country's birthday.

Very well said.

Rupert Pupkin 07-03-2006 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
But Rupert, talent doesnt win races, good rides do. I know Gomez has talent, but at what point do his indefensibly and inexplicably bad rides become unforgivable?
Part of being a professional in any walk of life is to be mentally prepared for your job. Obviously Edgar, Johnny, and the others read the DRF and study pp's and go out there with he right frame of mind. GG is streaky which is the mark of an unstable guy or manic guy. He seems to get in a groove and then just lose it. Thats not acceptable at the highets level of the game. Prado lacks his strength and timing but his rides are well planned and executed and delivered. I dont give a rats ass about talent, give me the hard working guy who just gets the damn job done. Thats what America is all about, a point that should not be forgotten on this country's birthday.

I agree with you that Gomez has not been as consistent this year as last year. Last year he was unbelievable. He went 6 months without giving a bad ride. This year he's certainly given some questionable rides. But by the same token, he moves horses up so much that he has won races that other jocks probably wouldn't have won on.
Anyway, I'm hoping to see him start riding as consistently as he did last year. As good of a year as he's had in terms of money won, I still think he can ride more consistently than he's ridden this year. All of that being said, I would certainly ride him before I would ride Prado.

Rupert Pupkin 07-03-2006 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite
This is the first I've heard about this ... and all I know is what I've read here ... but ...

... from the apparent thoroughness of the investigation conducted by the British police ... I wouldn't wager that anyone named as a suspect is completely innocent.

'Tis a shame ... thoroughbred racing doesn't need any more beatings than it has already endured.

Exactly! When police do an extensive investigation and then make an arrest, it's not very often that the suspect is innocent. Once in a while the person is innocent, but it's probably about 1% of the time. If you think he's innocent, you sure aren't playing the odds.

my miss storm cat 07-03-2006 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite
This is the first I've heard about this ... and all I know is what I've read here ... but ...

... from the apparent thoroughness of the investigation conducted by the British police ... I wouldn't wager that anyone named as a suspect is completely innocent.

'Tis a shame ... thoroughbred racing doesn't need any more beatings than it has already endured.

Well at least you admit this is the first you've heard about this..... it's gone on and on and on......

Surely even you will concede that the innocent are, at times, unfairly targeted and slandered.

Downthestretch55 07-03-2006 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
Exactly! When police do an extensive investigation and then make an arrest, it's not very often that the suspect is innocent. Once in a while the person is innocent, but it's probably about 1% of the time. If you think he's innocent, you sure aren't playing the odds.

Duh me! Duh me!
Key words seem to be "innocent until proven guilty".
Seems you've already convicted him...1% or not.
Thank you.
God has spoken.
As for me, I'll wait for the trial, God.

boldruler 07-03-2006 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
Duh me! Duh me!
Key words seem to be "innocent until proven guilty".
Seems you've already convicted him...1% or not.
Thank you.
God has spoken.
As for me, I'll wait for the trial, God.

I'll wait for the trial too. It seems everyone connected to anything is guilty today. When they investigate and they are not guilty they get a little story on page 50.

my miss storm cat 07-03-2006 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
Duh me! Duh me!
Key words seem to be "innocent until proven guilty".
Seems you've already convicted him...1% or not.
Thank you.
God has spoken.
As for me, I'll wait for the trial, God.

I love this post..... can i frame it?

brockguy 07-03-2006 06:17 PM

I find it hard how the evidence will be so watertight that he will be proven guilty. Surely with Coolmore's backing, they will get the best guys available to get him out. I seriously doubt that his chances are 1% or less of being innocent..

Rupert Pupkin 07-03-2006 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
Duh me! Duh me!
Key words seem to be "innocent until proven guilty".
Seems you've already convicted him...1% or not.
Thank you.
God has spoken.
As for me, I'll wait for the trial, God.

I have no idea if he's guilty or not. I was responding to a couple of the others who said he's probably innocent. It's pretty unlikely that he's innocent but it's certainly possible. He certainly deserves a fair trial. He could be one of the few that is innocent. The odds are against it, but it is possible.
I have an open mind. The last time I served on a jury, I would have voted to acquit the defendant. I was an alternate so I didn't end up getting to vote but I would have voted to acquit if I had the chance. It was a federal trial. It was one of those cases where the government was totally overstepping their bounds. The guy shouldn't have been charged with anything. He really didn't do anything criminal. There were some legitimate civil issues that he could have been sued for but I didn't see any criminal behavior.

Downthestretch55 07-03-2006 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
I have no idea if he's guilty or not. I was responding to a couple of the others who said he's probably innocent. It's pretty unlikely that he's innocent but it's certainly possible. He certainly deserves a fair trial. He could be one of the few that is innocent. The odds are against it, but it is possible.
I have an open mind. The last time I served on a jury, I would have voted to acquit the defendant. I was an alternate so I didn't end up getting to vote but I would have voted to acquit if I had the chance. It was a federal trial. It was one of those cases where the government was totally overstepping their bounds. The guy shouldn't have been charged with anything. He really didn't do anything criminal. There were some legitimate civil issues that he could have been sued for but I didn't see any criminal behavior.

So many times, we cloud our judgements with previous experiences that really have nothing to do with the current ones.
Throw that baggage away so that "fairness" can be addressed in this circumstance.
At this point, he's innocent.
If there is guilt to be found, I'm sure it will be presented.
Until then....
No findings.

Rupert Pupkin 07-03-2006 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
So many times, we cloud our judgements with previous experiences that really have nothing to do with the current ones.
Throw that baggage away so that "fairness" can be addressed in this circumstance.
At this point, he's innocent.
If there is guilt to be found, I'm sure it will be presented.
Until then....
No findings.

You are very foolish if you assume that someone who is arrested is innocent after there has been an extensive invetigation. You think that you know more that the authorities who have investigated the case for months? If you think he is innocent, then you are basically saying that the autorities that did the investigation are either corrupt or incompetent. You ae being hypocrtical. You are judging the authorities as doing a bad job even though you have no evidence of that.
You ae confused about the whole presumption of innocence deal. If you are on a jury, you are suppose to presume innocence until you hear all the facts of the case. At that point, you then need to decide if enough evidence has been presented to find the defendant guilty as charged. It is important for jurors to assume innocence unless guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. This is because the burden is on the govenrment. If the government does not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, then jurors must acquit the defendant.
We are not jurors on the Fallon case. We are simply observers. I have no reason to think the autorities have bungled the investigation. If I hear evidence of a bungled investigation, then that would be a different story. As of right now though, I haven't heard anything about a bungled investigation.

Bigsmc 07-03-2006 06:52 PM

Hey Brock,

Help jog my memory. Wasn't Fallon on a horse last year with a huge lead and he was basically wrapped up on him and allowed another to catch him at the wire? Wasn't that the ride that pretty much dragged him into the investigation?

My memory sucks and I could completely have that wrong, but I remember seeing video of it and thinking wow, how is he going to explain that one.

brockguy 07-03-2006 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigsmc
Hey Brock,

Help jog my memory. Wasn't Fallon on a horse last year with a huge lead and he was basically wrapped up on him and allowed another to catch him at the wire? Wasn't that the ride that pretty much dragged him into the investigation?

My memory sucks and I could completely have that wrong, but I remember seeing video of it and thinking wow, how is he going to explain that one.

yeah youre spot on here. Ballinger Ridge is the name of the horse, yeah it was a shocking ride but in fairness to him, the horse didnt want to quicken again and he lost on a bobbing finish.. I believe he was caught on tape telling undercover journalists that Rye (who beat him ) would win... not very clever but Rye was the 8/11 fav with Fallons horse 15/8.

Downthestretch55 07-03-2006 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
You are very foolish if you assume that someone who is arrested is innocent after there has been an extensive invetigation. You think that you know more that the authorities who have investigated the case for months? If you think he is innocent, then you are basically saying that the autorities that did the investigation are either corrupt or incompetent. You ae being hypocrtical. You are judging the authorities as doing a bad job even though you have no evidence of that.
You ae confused about the whole presumption of innocence deal. If you are on a jury, you are suppose to presume innocence until you hear all the facts of the case. At that point, you then need to decide if enough evidence has been presented to find the defendant guilty as charged. It is important for jurors to assume innocence unless guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. This is because the burden is on the govenrment. If the government does not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, then jurors must acquit the defendant.
We are not jurors on the Fallon case. We are simply observers. I have no reason to think the autorities have bungled the investigation. If I hear evidence of a bungled investigation, then that would be a different story. As of right now though, I haven't heard anything about a bungled investigation.

Rupert.
Let's get this straight.
I'm foolish to assume someone innocent until proven guilty? Right?
Where did I state that the investigators were corrupt or incompetent?
Bring up a quote if you can...
Your words are like something that comes out of my hindend after I've eaten lots of beans...and they stink as bad.

If you are unable to provide that which I've requested, an apology from you is in order.
If you insist on spouting nonsense and are unable to admit your moronic assertions...just do me a favor...ignore all of my posts.
I will do the same with yours from here on out....like fart echoes in a toilet.

Rupert Pupkin 07-03-2006 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55
Rupert.
Let's get this straight.
I'm foolish to assume someone innocent until proven guilty? Right?
Where did I state that the investigators were corrupt or incompetent?
Bring up a quote if you can...
Your words are like something that comes out of my hindend after I've eaten lots of beans...and they stink as bad.

If you are unable to provide that which I've requested, an apology from you is in order.
If you insist on spouting nonsense and are unable to admit your moronic assertions...just do me a favor...ignore all of my posts.
I will do the same with yours from here on out....like fart echoes in a toilet.

I think we are just speaking two different languages. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I am not saying that I would convict fallon of anything as of right now. If I had to decide right this minute whether Fallon was guilty or innocent, I would find him innocent. I wouldn't sentence a man to be punished without overwhelming evidence of his guilt. As of right now, I don't know the facts of the case and I am not on a jury deciding Fallon's fate. If I was deciding his fate, I would not convict him unless the evidence showed that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. As of right now, I don't even know what the evidence is. So I agree with you about not convicting someone before hearing the evidence. However, we are not deciding his fate on this message board. We are simply discussing the case. All I was saying was that if I am going to be realistic, I have to assume that the authorities have some fairly strong evidence against Fallon. They did an extensive investigation. That does not mean that I am in favor of convicting Fallon before I hear the evidence.
I think I probably misunderstood what you were saying. You were probably sayong the same thing that I am saying: That we should give Fallon the benefit of the doubt until we hear the evidence. We should respect the notion of innocnet until proven guilty. If that's what you are saying, then I agree with you. However, that is different from saying that you actually believe that he is innocent. If you are saying that you actually believe that he is innocent, then I would have to think that you think the investigators messed up. Although you never actually accused the investigators of messing up, if you actually think that Fallon is innocent, then I would have to assume that you belive the investigators messed up. Why else wold they be trying an innocent man? I think that was where our misunderstanding was. I thought you were saying that you actually believe he is innocent, but in hindsight I think you were simply saying that he is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

randallscott35 07-03-2006 09:44 PM

Let's be clear here, this is the reason we are lucky that Betfair is illegal in the U.S. There is simply too much incentive in being able to bet against one horse in a race. Fixing a race where the favorite is 1-2 and will run up the track is easy on Betfair b/c you are simply betting against the horse, not choosing who will actually win. Do races get fixed in the US? Of course, but its a lot more difficult to do and I would guess it is generally rare. Over there, betfair has enabled people to fix at their hearts delight....But I also say that irregular betting patterns are easy tells, not unlike how Vegas views boxing lines when guys throw fights. Lest we forget, this game revolves around gambling, not the pretty horses running in circles----that is secondary.


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