Librarians, Keepers of the Liberty
 

On this 4th of July, let us not forget the librarians and the ALA, protectors of those that inquire. My heros. Keepers of our liberty.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0701-25.htm

Here's to them all, especially my favorite librarian...Rupert Giles!

No complaints about librarians ...

... but the ALA management is a cesspool of commie-pinko-leftist-America-hating traitors.

Last time I checked, America was a land for all Americans...if we allow Bush and his kind to use fear to strip away basic liberties, only the rich and powerful will have freedom...in the end, we have only those rights that we can defend!

All Americans are rich and powerful ... because all Americans have equal economic opportunity and equal voting power ... one person = one vote.

And our rights are being defended ... and very well I might add ... against the vicious people who would gladly murder all of us ... including the members of this forum. We're all safe and free at our keyboards right now because of the efforts and dedication of our armed services and police forces.

Bush has been president for 5.5 years ... and not one American has had his or her basic liberties stripped away ... so your attempt at creating hysteria is meaningless.

BB,
Believe whatever you want to...you have that right.
However, if i can be reported for checking out books at my library as per the "Patriot Act"..I respectfully disagree.
Basic liberties have indeed been stripped away.
DTS

Equal economic opportunity my ass. Like Warren Buffett so eloquently noted (and I can't do it justice), a lot of "opportunity" is luck. None of us chooses who our families are or what economic situations we were born into. Rich kids start with a lot more financial support behind them than the rest of us, and if you really can't see the disparate starting points we all have (and how those affect our paths in life), then you must live in a wonderful imaginary American world.

Look. I'm not afraid of a bunch of terrorists. I am afraid of a bunch of terrified, short-sighted and well-intentioned American citizens handing over every liberty we have in the name of defending our country when someone engages in some clever rhetorical fear-mongering. That's letting the terrorists win. Muzzle the press, delegitimize and stifle dissent, alienate sympathetic allies, and you wind up with a place that may be "safe" but that is so much less than the great nation we're supposed to be. Not in my name, thanks.

Very well said! I really get tired of this "some folks just want to be poor" crap...it's hard to win a foot race when you are born without legs!

I like the way you think.

No one has ever been "reported" for checking out books at a library ... except of course for Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas by democrat senators ...

... so how do you conclude that "basic liberties have been stripped away" ... when your entire premise is a fantasy?

Equal opportunity ... not equal results.

Scores of millions of Americans who were once dirt poor ... for example, my family ... are now quite wealthy ... because they took advantage of the opportunities available to them in this wonderful country.

The "rich" whom you refer to ... also were once poor ... as virtually no one came to this country already wealthy.

America is the land of incredible opportunity ... and only losers and bums bemoan their fate here.

You don't have to be ...

... because at this very moment ... as we sit in safety and comfort at our keyboards ... dedicated members of our armed forces and police forces are on the job protecting us from the savages who would murder us all.

Because you live in this cocoon of protection provided by your fellow Americans ... you're full of bravado ... but honestly ask yourself this ...

... how "unafraid" would you be if a dozen armed, hooded al Qaeda terrorists broke into your home right now ... and started slashing the throats of your loved ones?

There was no thought involved in that sophomoric response.

None of these things have happened ... you can't cite a single example of any of them.

You're either deluded yourself ... or trying to convince others to be deluded.

Sorry ... that leftist propaganda tactic never has worked and never will work ... not in this brave and decent country.

Evidence on alienating our allies (note that even Britain is having problems with us now, something I can definitely affirm from being here):

POLITICS:
U.S. Image Abroad Takes a New Turn South
Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON, Jun 13 (IPS) - Three years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, the image of the United States in Europe and the Islamic world has resumed its post-war slide, according to the latest in a series of surveys of public opinion in 14 countries released here Tuesday by the Pew Global Attitudes Project (PGAP).

Support for Washington's "global war on terror" has also declined, according to the survey of nearly 17,000 people, and confidence in the leadership of President George W. Bush, is at its lowest ebb, as it is in the United States, as well.

And in 12 of the 14 foreign countries surveyed, strong pluralities of 44 percent (Russia and China) to majorities of up to 76 (France) percent said the Iraq war had made the world "more dangerous". The only exceptions were India and Nigeria where pluralities of 41 percent of respondents said the world had been made "safer".

In addition to those two countries, the survey, which was conducted in April and May this year, included four western countries -- Britain, France, Germany and Spain; five predominantly Islamic countries -- Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan, Jordan, and Turkey; Russia, Japan, and China, as well as the United States itself.

The survey, which covered a range of issues, including attitudes toward global warming, avian flu, Iran, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, was the fourth in an annual series carried out by Pew since 2002 -- just after the U.S.-led ouster of the Taliban in Afghanistan and just before the Iraq invasion.

Shortly after the invasion, the survey showed a stunning drop in favourable attitudes toward Bush and the United States, particularly among Washington's European allies and in the Islamic world.

In France, for example, the percentage of respondents with a favourable opinion of the U.S. fell from 63 percent in 2002 to 43 percent in 2003; in Indonesia, it fell from 61 percent to 15 percent; in Jordan, from 25 percent to just one percent.

In a few countries, the decline continued through early 2004. But in many others, Washington's image appeared to recover slightly by the middle of that year, and even more by the spring of 2005.

By then, for example, the percentage of Russians with a favourable opinion of the U.S. had grown from 36 percent immediately after the war to 52 percent; in Indonesia, it climbed back up to 38 percent; and in Jordan, to 21 percent.

The latest poll, however, shows a new deterioration in foreign attitudes towards the U.S. despite explicit efforts by the administration, especially Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, to emphasise multilateral diplomacy over unilateral action.

Declines were particularly pronounced in Spain where the percentage or respondents with a favourable view of the U.S. fell from 41 percent last year to 23 percent; in Russia, where it fell from 52 percent to 43 percent; in Indonesia, from 38 percent to 30 percent; in Jordan, from 21 percent to 15 percent; in Turkey, from 23 percent to 12 percent; and in India, from 71 percent to 56 percent -- an especially surprising finding given the recent breakthrough nuclear agreement between the two countries.

The only countries in which Washington's image appears to have continued its rebound were China (from 42 percent favourable last year to 47 percent) and Pakistan (from 23 percent to 27 percent), where the improvement was no doubt helped by Washington's high-profile rescue and relief operations after last year's earthquake in Kashmir.

The U.S. image in Indonesia had also improved markedly as a result of its relief efforts following the December 2004 tsunami, only to resume its decline, however, over the year that followed.

That the resumption of Washington's decline was due primarily to opposition to the Iraq war and the more-general "war on terror" was made clear not only by the large pluralities and majorities (in 10 of the 14 countries) who said the world had been rendered "more dangerous" by the U.S. invasion, but also by the belief in all but two countries -- Germany and Japan -- that the "American presence in Iraq" constituted a greater danger to world peace than the presumed nuclear ambitions of Iran or North Korea.

Even in Washington's closest ally, Britain, respondents rated the U.S. in Iraq as a greater danger than Iran by a 41-34 percent margin; among the predominantly Islamic countries, respondents rated Washington's presence in Iraq from three times (Jordan) to seven times (Pakistan) more dangerous than Iran.

Sorry to post all this stuff, but BB wanted some examples. I'll stop in a minute. Thanks for humoring me.

Freedom of the press:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporte..._freedom_index

Not good to be ranked 44th for press freedom, in my opinion. In 2004, we were 24th:

Published on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 by the Inter Press Service
World Press Freedom Day
Secrecy, Propaganda Seen Sweeping US
by William Fisher


NEW YORK -- Freedom of the press is in decline in the United States amid increased government secrecy and propaganda, say media veterans, analysts, and advocates.

Contrary to the conventional wisdom here that U.S. media are the freest in the world, the United States has suffered ''notable setbacks'' in press freedom and has slipped among countries tracked by the New York-based rights group Freedom House.


This is a government with absolutely no respect for the role of the press in a democracy.

Charles Davis
University of Missouri School of Journalism
The organization, in an annual survey released in advance of Tuesday's commemoration of World Press Freedom Day, said media in Finland, Iceland, and Sweden faced the fewest fetters in 2004 while the most restrictions were slapped on journalists in North Korea, Burma (also known as Myanmar), Cuba, and Turkmenistan.

The United States was tied with Barbados, Canada, Dominica, Estonia, and Latvia at 24th place out of 194 countries covered in the survey.

Countries were scored based on three broad categories: the legal environment in which media operate, political influences on reporting and access to information, and economic pressures on content and the dissemination of news.

Freedom House said the U.S. score declined in part because of ''a number of legal cases in which prosecutors sought to compel journalists to reveal sources or turn over notes or other material they had gathered in the course of investigations.''

Judith Miller of the New York Times and Matthew Cooper of Time Magazine, for example, face prison sentences for refusing to reveal their sources in a case in which the name of a Central Intelligence Agency covert agent was publicly revealed.

Neither Miller nor Cooper wrote articles about the case. Chicago Sun Times syndicated columnist, Robert Novak, named the agent in print. But the government is demanding that Miller and Cooper turn over any information they have. The journalists have lost their appeals in lower courts and will now take their case to the Supreme Court.

Doubts about official influence over media were fanned by revelations that the administration of President George W. Bush was paying journalists to espouse administration positions without identifying their government sponsors.

In one case, the administration -- seeking to build support among black families for its education policies -- paid a prominent African-American pundit, Armstrong Williams, 240,000 dollars to promote the ''No Child Left Behind'' law on his nationally syndicated television show and through his newspaper column, and to urge other black journalists to do the same.

Other nationally known journalists have admitted accepting thousands of dollars to endorse government programs.

''Paying journalists to write positive stories is part of a pattern of secrecy and manipulating the public that undermines our safety and our democracy,'' Steven Aftergood, who runs a project on government secrecy for the Federation of American Scientists, told IPS.

Government agencies also have produced video news releases, or pro-government propaganda made to resemble independent news, and distributed them to local television stations across the country. The stations frequently fail to identify the government as the source, thus encouraging viewers to believe they are watching genuine news, Freedom House said.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO), the Congressional watchdog agency, has called the videos a form of ''covert propaganda.''

More than 20 federal agencies have used taxpayer funds to produce such television segments. Bush has defended the practice and has said he plans to continue it.

But Martin Kaplan of the University of Southern California's Annenberg School for Communication told IPS, ''The consequence of their injecting fake news into the media mainstream may be even worse than poisoning public debate on specific issues. It corrodes the ability of real journalism to do its job.''

Charles Davis, executive director of the University of Missouri School of Journalism's freedom of information center, added, ''Press freedom in the U.S. is experiencing some dark days as government at all levels seems content to turn its back on cherished freedoms in favor of administrative expediency, executive privilege and propaganda. Its embrace of secrecy to the point of caricature is but a symptom of the broader disease. This is a government with absolutely no respect for the role of the press in a democracy.''

US News and World Report magazine recently complained that the Bush administration has ''quietly but efficiently dropped a shroud of secrecy across many critical operations of the federal government -- cloaking its own affairs from scrutiny and removing from the public domain important information on health, safety, and environmental matters. The result has been a reversal of a decades-long trend of openness in government.''

White House spokespersons routinely counter such assertions by saying that the administration's policy toward the media is honest and transparent.

Even so, Jack Behrman, a former assistant secretary of commerce, accused the administration of hypocrisy.

''Our government avowedly promotes freedom abroad but has sought successfully to limit it in the U.S. through secrecy and manipulation of the media,'' Behrman told IPS.

Copyright © 2005 IPS-Inter Press Service

I am not an idiot. Do Not tell me what to believe.

Librarians? Is this a joke. Librarians are like dinosaurs. They serve little use today.

The people that deserve thanks are the people that risked their lives, many who lost their lives so we could have liberty.

Was George Washington a librarian? LOL.

I despise Bush, but liberties have actually been expanded under him. Stop being a self-centered american and look at the world picture. The real problem with Bush is he ruined our military. It isn't our job to go freeing people. Help people free themselves, yes. Do it for them, no. George Washington freed his country with the help of the French, but he did most of the work. This idiot Bush thinks it is our job to free countries. Moron, yes, but a guy who stripped away liberties, that is ridiculous liberal nonsense.

So ... what we have as "proof" for leftist propaganda talking points ... are ...

... are even more leftist propaganda talking points.

You have not ... and cannot ... cite a single example of liberties being stripped away ... or media being muzzled ... or allies being alienated.

The truest way to evaluate how foreigners regard another country ... is not to listen to leftists regurgitating their talking points ... but to watch the feet of ordinary people. And right now ... as always ... the feet of the people throughout the world are stampeding toward the United States ... not away from it.

Nearly everyone wants to get in ... and virtually no one ... including the leftists who compose the anti-American propaganda ... wants to get out.

Regurgitating talking points is not "thought" ... it's mindless toadyism.

No liberties have been stripped away, so you shouldn't expect an answer from these liberals who have destroyed the Democratic Party with their nonsense.

You're confusing strategies and objectives.

The objective ... the overriding goal and the duty of elected officials ... is to safeguard the lives and freedom of Americans.

One of the strategies being used to achieve that objective ... is to foster democratic systems in countries where such systems do not exist ... not simply because that would benefit the peoples of those countries ... although in fact it does ... but because experience over the past two centuries has shown that democratic countries are far less dangerous to us than dictatorial countries are.

Democracy in Iraq isn't an objective ... it's a strategy being used to achieve our objective ... which is safety and freedom for Americans.

Nonsense. The administration took the advice of shady politicians tied to the defense contractors, instead of listening to their military leaders. They lied, made up false information and weakened our military. Funny how just about all of the architects of the war never served a minute in any branch of the service.

The Real George W., George Washington, warned against getting involved with the affairs of other countries and this idiot that is now President, and his little neocons, planned this war out in the 1990's. The fact is the this administration is INCOMPETENT. That can't be argued.

Please don't tell me about strategies vs. objectives. Let me guess, you never served a day in any branch of the service, but you read a lot of books. LOL.

You're leaving out one small fact ...

.. in the late summer of 2001 our nation was attacked ... with 3,000 Americans murdered and billions of dollars in property destroyed. The enemy who attacked us have made themselves and their objectives well-known ... they want to murder us all and subject the world to their tyrannical rule.

I don't think this was the result of a plot by defense contractors in the 1990's ... when Bill Clinton was president.

No, you are leaving out a fact. Iraq had zero to do with 9-11. ZERO. You seem to forget about the 2500+ and 15,000+ soldiers/marines (few navy too) that have died fighting. This is a neocon war that was planned out in the 1990's. Even people in the military agree with that. The big problem is that now the military is so thinned out that countries like Iran can just laugh at us. A dictator in Iraq was never any threat to the US. Enough with your lies and justifications for this administration. THEY ARE INCOMPETENT. Bill Clinton was an idiot too. I make no excuses for him.

BB, I *live* abroad right now and encounter people from around the world every day who occupy every part of the sociopolitical spectrum. I'm not sure how to convince you that the ordinary person's view of American leadership is incredibly low. It's maddening to be American and to hear what people think of us, but the fact is that we're being held in pretty poor esteem by a majority of people from around the world. Opinion polls or individual conversations - they all indicate the same trend. I wish that weren't the case, but it is...and the best way to annoy a European that I know is to insist that everyone who dislikes America's behavior is some sort of elitist or is delusional. That's the fastest way to shut down a conversation with anyone from anywhere, or to get laughed out of your nearest pub. I'm certainly not saying that no one likes us, or that people won't be polite enough to save your feelings and say you're all right...but I've been here for a year now and have been depressed by the way people talk about us, both in my current country of residence and everywhere I travel. No one respects our current Administration, either, including some avowedly rabid Tories who happen to be my friends.

That hasn't been my experience in 34 trips to western Europe ... but maybe I haven't encountered as many rabid leftists as you have. I'm sure you're honestly relating your experiences ... and I say ...

... So? So what?

We singlehandedly saved Europe ... and most of the rest of the world ... from some of the most brutal, vicious tyrannies that ever existed. If the people whom we saved and their descendants ... who now live in the peace and freedom we created for them ... are ingrates ... why should we have any reaction whatsoever to that? Let them wallow in their ingratitude.

Meanwhile ... however ... they're all dying to come here ... because their native countries suck ... big time ... and they know it better than anyone.

Whether or not Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 ... the fact is that we're fighting ... and defeating ... the terrorist enemy there instead of here. The terrorists have summoned all their minions to Iraq ... and our professional armed forces are eliminating them.

There hasn't been a single attack on American soil in nearly five years ... thought our sworn enemy would have dearly loved to inflict thousands of them.

Isn't having our best-trained people fight the enemy on their turf a much better strategy ... than having our civilians try to fend them off on our soil?

And if you think there's an alternative to those scenarios ... you have no understanding of the viciousness and determination of the savages we face.

Well, last time I was "abroad" it was to fun places like Nam, Laos, Cambodia...sorta got a mixed reception there, some chicks dug us, some tried to blow us up. I guess my point has always been that this is and hopefully always will be the greatest nation on earth (or anywhere within the United Federation of Planets)...no argument! I'd rather live here than anywhere (well, maybe a month or so in Paris, London and...you get the idea) but that doesn't mean I'm willing to turn a blind eye to problems...and we have a lot! Too much hatred...we always hate those we fear, fear those who are different or who we don't understand. We locked up the Japanese Americans in WWII but let the German Americans walk free, we kept and tortured slaves, committed genocide against the Native Americans...today, we beat up and violate the rights of gays and still hold women back from being truly "equal"! We've still got a lot of work to do to reach the manifestation of the words of the founding fathers. In this, the richest most powerful nation in the history of the world, children go to bed hungry every night, elderly folks are granted a "dignified death" (translation: allowed to die before their time) and babies are slaughtered in their mother's wombs under the lie of "choice"! "Churches" filled with haters picket and shout insults at the funerals of brave Americans who fell in battle cause they died defending a nation that "allows homosexuals to be part of society". And the idiot in the White House (yes, I voted twice for him) is more concerned about flag burning and gay marriage than the suffering of poor folk! Sorry but someone needs to speak out...authority, by it's very nature, needs to be constantly questioned!! More laws, more prisons, more fences at the borders somehow don't seem to be appropriate in "the land of the free"!!

Much of what you say is sensible ... but some is not.

Slavery is something we inherited from the British colonialists. It was permitted to exist in some states in order to get the union formed ... but was permanently dispatched in relatively quick order ... 75 years after the adoption of the Constitution ... through tremendous sacrifices made by the overwhelmingly decent people of the country. No one alive in America today should feel any shame over it.

The idea that there are masses of children going to bed hungry every night is utter nonsense. The biggest health problem faced by American children today is obesity.

And if and when a homosexual ... or anyone else ... is beaten up ... the legal authorities arrest and prosecute the miscreants as best they can. No individual or group is denied legal protection in America today.

Bold B,
Ever hear of Matthew Shepherd? You're last statement proves your ignorance.
Your command of history is also inspiring...duh! correct me if i'm wrong but weren't the first slaves brought from West Africa (Mali), after the Incas were decimated by the Spanish? Their population was erased within thirty years due to disease (European), malnutrition, and overwork on the plantations and in the mines...but, hey? What do I know?
I'm still trying to connect Saddam with the 9/11 attack like you asserted.

My wisdom is totally wasted on your ignorance.
Go read some history books, or better yet, do a web search so you don't sound like such a fool. It's not for me to educate you.

Have a VERY HAPPY 4th of July!

You sir, live in a fairie-tale world! Children do indeed go to bed hungry every single night and I've seen it with my own eyes...from the hills of West Virginia and Kentucky to the violent streets of every city in America! I've worked among them and I know...don't have to read about it, don't need Rush to deny it! Cops have a high rate of physical spouse abuse...how do you suppose that goes? Gays often don't report crimes cause they are more afraid of the cops than the perps...if Elton John gets mugged, you're correct...the police will fall all over themselves to arrest and convict...not because gays have equal protection but because money speaks...don't believe that? Ask OJ!! I respect the police, they have a tough job, and I'm not singling them out...merely stating facts! Cops are like the rest of society...they mirror their predispositions! We have a very long way to go until all life is respected and all people are treated fairly!!

The first part of course is totally bovine residue. The second point is why most of us live here.

Cmon Bold one. ON THE WHOLE there is very clearly most opportunity for white males in the US. You cannot tell me with any sort of sincerety, that if one wanted to have the greatest opportunity in the US, one would want to be a black female. Replace black female with white male and bingo, ON THE WHOLE, the greatest opportunity. You may point to exceptions like Oprah etc..., but on the average, no one in this country with any sense kids themselves about this country as it stands.

So tell me... you would rather have been born a latino female because this would, on average, give you the greatest opportunity in this country? If not, what ethnic group and sex would most likely lead to opportunity?

Caucasian and male. Any other response is dreamworld. Dont try and lie to yourself and make things look hunky-dory. I am damn glad I am Caucasian and male. I sincerely believe if I was black and female, my opportunties would not have been as great ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.

This is what has lead to some of the very devisive equal opportunity rules that screw lots of Caucasian kids trying to get into college. BE real here.

As an aside, it seems to me a slight discrepancy, Bold, that you would say... " I wouldn't wager that anyone named as a suspect is completely innocent" on the Fallon thread.

Wow! Are you erratic ... or what?

The Matthew Shepard case only reinforces what I said about American law enforcement ... it tracks down and prosecutes miscreants regardless of who the victim is.

And what does Spanish treatment of South American natives in the 16th century have to do with the United States today? How about the way the Mongolians slaughtered the Chinese in the 13th century ... should we blame that on Bush too?

In the 14th century ... one-third of the population of Europe was killed by an Asian disease ... known as the Black Plague. That's what usually happens when people who have been isolated from each other for centuries finally make contact. Should Asians today feel ashamed of what their disease did to Europeans seven hundred years ago?

As Jerry Seinfeld famously said to George Costanza ... you don't just need a psychiatrist ... you need an entire team.

God bless America on its 230th birthday today!

The main thing that has held back the economic progress of some African Americans is that they've bought into the concept of the Welfare State ... the idea that government will solve all their problems.

The African Americans who haven't bought into this ... who have been self-reliant ... and there are millions of them ... many of whom live right here on my upper class street ... have done spectacularly well.

And of course you completely overlook the amazing success of Asian immigrants in this country. The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Indians, and Pakistanis are among the most successful and prosperous groups in this country.

You've made a foolish mistake by associating yourself with the hate-America leftist crowd. Get away from those losers ... and you'll be much happier and more successful yourself.

Think seriously about this ... and then act on it ... on this most appropriate day ... the day of Independence.

Do you think the Palestinians have any legitimate grievances? Yes or No?

BB,
I disagree with you regarding "America haters".
It IS possible to LOVE America yet dispute the policies of the present administration...in fact, I consider it patriotic, even if you don't.

May I also add that I wasn't the one that initated discussion of "history".
The obvious error of your "arguements" is diversion from the topic, insults, and "broad brush" categorizations. Typical freshman debating tactics.

DTS, amen to that! Not sure why constructively criticizing America is always equated with hating it...Seems like certain people have so little security in their beliefs that they can't actually reflect on any idea that dares challenge them because they have to be right! I think it's quite patriotic to love a country despite its flaws, and to commit yourself to doing something about them.

Check out this editorial today, which I think sums it up quite well: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070300925.html

Happy Fourth, all.

You say you want to dispute the policies of this administration ... yet all you've talked about are the Spanish conquistadors and the colonial slave traders of centuries yore.

Neither you nor your ideological comrades have come up with a single instance of "stripping away of liberty" despite having had ample opportunity to do so.

When you have a cogent thought of your own ... we'll all be glad to hear it. But rote regurgitation of leftist agitprop is a complete bore.