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-   -   Shocking news!!! (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13113)

Cannon Shell 05-12-2007 02:10 PM

Shocking news!!!
 
http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38900

brianwspencer 05-12-2007 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I was going to be more eloquent in my response, but I've been too busy scraping my jaw off of the floor.

I still doubt that this little getaway will even qualify as a break. Something tells me in a few weeks when her 0-fer keeps going in other races, that the cash cow will be brought back again in a spot he doesn't belong.

31lengths 05-12-2007 02:14 PM

A Belmont bid, maybe?

somerfrost 05-12-2007 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
I was going to be more eloquent in my response, but I've been too busy scraping my jaw off of the floor.

I still doubt that this little getaway will even qualify as a break. Something tells me in a few weeks when her 0-fer keeps going in other races, that the cash cow will be brought back again in a spot he doesn't belong.

So..she does the right thing for the horse and still gets slammed...I don't get it? Certainly the horse earned his way into the Derby...she takes a week to evaluate, making plans to run as any smart trainer would, and now decides that it's not in the best interest of the horse...seems like she did everything right to me...

Kasept 05-12-2007 02:19 PM

“It was a tough decision but it is a long campaign and we have a lot of races in store for him.”

Oy vay...

brianwspencer 05-12-2007 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
So..she does the right thing for the horse and still gets slammed...I don't get it? Certainly the horse earned his way into the Derby...she takes a week to evaluate, making plans to run as any smart trainer would, and now decides that it's not in the best interest of the horse...seems like she did everything right to me...

Obviously I'm thrilled to see her not point the horse for the Preakness.

Am I really that out of line in thinking that while it's great that she's doing the right thing for the horse in passing the Preakness, that there was no mention of exactly where he will go after that? So he's skipping the Preakness, it doesn't make her the Messiah for holding him out of one race, just so she can inevitably enter him over his head shortly after the Preakness. If I'm wrong and he gets a real vacation, I'll be glad to own up to it at that time.

It's not outlandish to doubt that she will do right by the horse. Skipping one race doesn't mean she's going to actually do right for the horse.

She made one right decision. That puts her batting average at about .0001, something I'm not exactly rushing to wet my pants over while excusing everything else she's done. Sorry if that's the wrong answer, Somer.

Danzig 05-12-2007 02:25 PM

well, i'm glad to see it. hopefully he'll get any time off that he needs, and she points him to a spot that won't be quite so deep next time out.

Kasept 05-12-2007 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
So..she does the right thing for the horse and still gets slammed...I don't get it? Certainly the horse earned his way into the Derby...she takes a week to evaluate, making plans to run as any smart trainer would, and now decides that it's not in the best interest of the horse...seems like she did everything right to me...

JH,

I'm sorry, but she's walking around blind without a cane.. After the Derby she said, "The Preakness was always the race we thought would suit him best.." Hmmm.. Then why waste him in the Derby where he had ZERO chance.. none.. nada.. nil.. uhgatz.. gernicht.. to so much as pick up a check?

Give Team Valor and T.A.P. credit.. At least they KNEW to pass the Derby with King of the Roxy in favor of Baltimore..

AeWingnut 05-12-2007 02:26 PM

why is Songster goofy?

Mayb she means we have years of racing in front of them ?

ArlJim78 05-12-2007 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
“It was a tough decision but it is a long campaign and we have a lot of races in store for him.”

Oy vay...

What are the odds that he faces Invasor at some point this year. 50/50?

Danzig 05-12-2007 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
What are the odds that he faces Invasor at some point this year. 50/50?

ewwwwwww. surely not!

brianwspencer 05-12-2007 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
What are the odds that he faces Invasor at some point this year. 50/50?

I say more along the lines of 70/30, and the odds of him finishing within a pole of the champ? 25-1 ML.

somerfrost 05-12-2007 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
Obviously I'm thrilled to see her not point the horse for the Preakness.

Am I really that out of line in thinking that while it's great that she's doing the right thing for the horse in passing the Preakness, that there was no mention of exactly where he will go after that? So he's skipping the Preakness, it doesn't make her the Messiah for holding him out of one race, just so she can inevitably enter him over his head shortly after the Preakness. If I'm wrong and he gets a real vacation, I'll be glad to own up to it at that time.

It's not outlandish to doubt that she will do right by the horse. Skipping one race doesn't mean she's going to actually do right for the horse.

She made one right decision. That puts her batting average at about .0001, something I'm not exactly rushing to wet my pants over while excusing everything else she's done. Sorry if that's the wrong answer, Somer.


Look, I think it's fine to cast a critical eye at her record but the horse had as much right in the Derby as at least half the field, she was harshly criticized here (including remarks about her physical appearance) for even thinking about the Preakness. As it turns out, all she has done is take the proper amount of time to consider her options and then pass. IF the horse is entered in subsequent races where folks think he's overmatched etc, then a critical comment is justified...but using this news, that she decided not to run thinking of what is best for the horse, seems an odd place to criticize her again...seems a bit like overkill to me, folks have already made their point. I think giving her credit here is the proper response!

Kasept 05-12-2007 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
why is Songster goofy?

Mayb she means we have years of racing in front of them?

Songster is a very funny, playful and animated horse.. Was something of the barn pet around Albertrani's shed last year.

And years of racing for T-berg? No.. She means lots of races coming up for him this year... And why not? It's her only horse. You realize she has 10 wins in her entire career as a trainer? 10.. And 4 of them by T-berg. In a total of about 250 starts.

brianwspencer 05-12-2007 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
Look, I think it's fine to cast a critical eye at her record but the horse had as much right in the Derby as at least half the field, she was harshly criticized here (including remarks about her physical appearance) for even thinking about the Preakness. As it turns out, all she has done is take the proper amount of time to consider her options and then pass. IF the horse is entered in subsequent races where folks think he's overmatched etc, then a critical comment is justified...but using this news, that she decided not to run thinking of what is best for the horse, seems an odd place to criticize her again...seems a bit like overkill to me, folks have already made their point. I think giving her credit here is the proper response!

Sorry, I'm just not ready to dive into the pile and heap praise on her for making a (singular) good decision, feeling fully confident that its positive effects will be short-lived and soon cancelled out by another series of poor decisions.

hockey2315 05-12-2007 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
Songster is a very funny, playful and animated horse.. Was something of the barn pet around Albertrani's shed last year.

And years of racing for T-berg? No.. She means lots of races coming up for him this year... And why not? It's her only horse. You realize she has 10 wins in her entire career as a trainer? 10.. And 4 of them by T-berg. In a total of about 250 starts.

She did bring home some bombs @ Toga last summer, though. . . Not that that really means anything. . .

Danzig 05-12-2007 02:42 PM

so....you can't harshly criticize someone for a decision, but you can be harshly criticized for being harshly critical.

ok, got it.

brianwspencer 05-12-2007 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
so....you can't harshly criticize someone for a decision, but you can be harshly criticized for being harshly critical.

ok, got it.

Say that ten times fast!

pmayjr 05-12-2007 03:28 PM

What are the chances that this decision had nothing to do with Jamie Sanders, but ownership stepping in and saying "No Preakness". ???

Kasept 05-12-2007 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmayjr
What are the chances that this decision had nothing to do with Jamie Sanders, but ownership stepping in and saying "No Preakness". ???

She's part owner.

somerfrost 05-12-2007 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
so....you can't harshly criticize someone for a decision, but you can be harshly criticized for being harshly critical.

ok, got it.

But she's being criticized even though she made what everyone seems to think is the right decision!

DaTruth 05-12-2007 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
“It was a tough decision but it is a long campaign and we have a lot of races in store for him.”

Oy vay...

Count them up: Iowa Derby, Indiana Derby, Pennsylvania Derby, Super Derby, Oklahoma Derby, West Virginia Derby, and maybe some turf detours for those rich Colonial Downs turf stakes.

Kasept 05-12-2007 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
But she's being criticized even though she made what everyone seems to think is the right decision!

John..

I wouldn't say she made a decision. More likely the decision was made for her by the horse. He was supposed to be on his way to Baltimore today.. You can be sure there is something wrong with him.

somerfrost 05-12-2007 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
John..

I wouldn't say she made a decision. More likely the decision was made for her by the horse. He was supposed to be on his way to Baltimore today.. You can be sure there is something wrong with him.

Steve,
I know you may have more inside info than I do but I certainly don't know that (if you do then I bow to your info)...in my experience, trainers will often wait until the last minute to make a decision such as this. Like you said, he would have left for Baltimore this weekend so a decision had to be made now. It makes sense to me to wait a week and see how the horse is doing doesn't mean there is anything "wrong" per se...again, if you have info I don't then I accept that, just going on my experience.

SCUDSBROTHER 05-12-2007 04:32 PM

Who (exactly) turned down millions(2 or 3) for this individual? That's the decision I don't get.

somerfrost 05-12-2007 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
Who (exactly) turned down millions(2 or 3) for this individual? That's the decision I don't get.

I have to believe that she had a large say...not sure how much of the horse she owns but I can understand her rolling the dice. Trainers, even good ones, only get a few "big" horses...for someone starting out like her and having difficulty getting quality horses, taking a chance that this horse might win a couple big races thus giving her career a jump start seems worth it!

Kasept 05-12-2007 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
Steve,
I know you may have more inside info than I do but I certainly don't know that (if you do then I bow to your info)...in my experience, trainers will often wait until the last minute to make a decision such as this. Like you said, he would have left for Baltimore this weekend so a decision had to be made now. It makes sense to me to wait a week and see how the horse is doing doesn't mean there is anything "wrong" per se...again, if you have info I don't then I accept that, just going on my experience.

No special knowledge here.. though I'll try to find out more. PIM publicity had expected the horse, so I'm guessing something came a' cropper yesterday or this morning.. Will come out soon enough.

SCUDSBROTHER 05-12-2007 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
I have to believe that she had a large say...not sure how much of the horse she owns but I can understand her rolling the dice. Trainers, even good ones, only get a few "big" horses...for someone starting out like her and having difficulty getting quality horses, taking a chance that this horse might win a couple big races thus giving her career a jump start seems worth it!

How many chances you gunna have to sell a horse for 2 or 3 million though?

AeWingnut 05-12-2007 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
so....you can't harshly criticize someone for a decision, but you can be harshly criticized for being harshly critical.

ok, got it.

now that's a Slogan

somerfrost 05-12-2007 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
How many chances you gunna have to sell a horse for 2 or 3 million though?

True, but depending on her financial situation (of which I have no idea), she may feel this is her one chance to build a lucrative career.

Cannon Shell 05-12-2007 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
Who (exactly) turned down millions(2 or 3) for this individual? That's the decision I don't get.

Count me among those that are skeptical about such offers.

sumitas 05-12-2007 06:48 PM

Tberg is such a game horse. He shoud have passed the derby and pointed for the preakness or the Lone Star.

jpops757 05-12-2007 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost
Look, I think it's fine to cast a critical eye at her record but the horse had as much right in the Derby as at least half the field, she was harshly criticized here (including remarks about her physical appearance) for even thinking about the Preakness. As it turns out, all she has done is take the proper amount of time to consider her options and then pass. IF the horse is entered in subsequent races where folks think he's overmatched etc, then a critical comment is justified...but using this news, that she decided not to run thinking of what is best for the horse, seems an odd place to criticize her again...seems a bit like overkill to me, folks have already made their point. I think giving her credit here is the proper response!

She showed them and beat 3 in the derby. If she was so concerned for the horse why was she even considering the trip to Baltimore?

Hickory Hill Hoff 05-12-2007 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Well it's unfortunate that every thread nowadays turns into a soapbox session. At least she is now doing right by the horse. Hoefully now she regroups and aims for the King's Bishop, because a grade 1 will look mighty good on that resume.

Well, that may be true...one can ask a question and sometimes get a "sarcastic" reply.....
and just where are those 2 yr.old runners in NY??? :D

Merlinsky 05-12-2007 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Well it's unfortunate that every thread nowadays turns into a soapbox session. At least she is now doing right by the horse. Hoefully now she regroups and aims for the King's Bishop, because a grade 1 will look mighty good on that resume.

Not if...oh wait, you're assuming he runs well in it...gotcha...

;) No seriously he's a nice lil horse, I just think Jamie's a liability to him rather than a benefit and he could do better. Steve's comments on her record speak for themselves. Shouldn't she have more lower level winners if she just needed to break out?

Hickory Hill Hoff 05-12-2007 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I don't think you get what I mean, and I was trying to answer your question when I posted the link.

Just Kidding.....:) but sometimes we tend to go "overboard" with some posts,
it's all done in good fun...not vicious like on some other boards (the "karma" over there has come home to roost...blank!)


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