Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   The Paddock (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Ranking (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11761)

jpops757 04-09-2007 10:56 AM

Ranking
 
Everyone is ranking the 3yr olds. Lets narrow it down. How about ranking Team Pletchers 3yr olds. I dont think any of his fell off the trail this past week-end. Unless they come back with some kind of ailment.

POINTGIVEN1985 04-09-2007 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpops757
Everyone is ranking the 3yr olds. Lets narrow it down. How about ranking Team Pletchers 3yr olds. I dont think any of his fell off the trail this past week-end. Unless they come back with some kind of ailment.

i will rank them, heres my opinion.....

not one of pletchers horses has a legit shot to win the derby, not one,
thats my opinion i wont bother ranking them because i feel they will all be overbet, none of them will offer value and i dont think any of them have a shot to win, i'd be shocked if a pletcher horses makes the superfecta.

whodey17 04-09-2007 11:05 AM

Pletchers 3 year olds always seem to diminish when it gets closer to Derby day. Not sure why, but it sure does seem like that.

NTamm1215 04-09-2007 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985
i will rank them, heres my opinion.....

not one of pletchers horses has a legit shot to win the derby, not one,
thats my opinion i wont bother ranking them because i feel they will all be overbet, none of them will offer value and i dont think any of them have a shot to win, i'd be shocked if a pletcher horses makes the superfecta.

A typically strong response from you.

To answer the question posed, I will rank them because I do think more than one have a legitimate shot to win the Derby.

1.) Any Given Saturday- Ran the worst race of his life while wide in a race that he was originally not even supposed to be running in. He will improve off it and show that he is absolutely not 5 lengths worse than 'Nobiz.
2.) Scat Daddy- He's done the most on the track of any of Pletcher's bunch and as the preps keep coming in with ho-hum results his stock skyrockets.
3.) Circular Quay- Tons of raw talent, but the 8 week layoff has to make even the sternest of folks uneasy.
4.) Cowtown Cat- He definitely was the beneficiary of a free and clear trip in Illinois, but he validated what I considered to be a questionable win in the Gotham.
5-8.) Deadly Dealer, Sam P., King of the Roxy, Soaring By, etc.- I don't think any of these have a great shot, but we'll learn more about DD and Soaring By this week and next week.

I think it's a little premature to say that Todd P won't even get in the superfecta.

NT

King Glorious 04-09-2007 11:10 AM

Circular Quay
Rags to Riches
Scat Daddy

The rest don't even matter.

Cajungator26 04-09-2007 11:17 AM

Scat Daddy
Any Given Saturday
Circular Quay (don't think he's in the gate for the derby, though.)
Cowtown Cat
Deadly Dealer
Sam P
King of the Roxy
Soaring By

POINTGIVEN1985 04-09-2007 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
A typically strong response from you.

To answer the question posed, I will rank them because I do think more than one have a legitimate shot to win the Derby.

1.) Any Given Saturday- Ran the worst race of his life while wide in a race that he was originally not even supposed to be running in. He will improve off it and show that he is absolutely not 5 lengths worse than 'Nobiz.
2.) Scat Daddy- He's done the most on the track of any of Pletcher's bunch and as the preps keep coming in with ho-hum results his stock skyrockets.
3.) Circular Quay- Tons of raw talent, but the 8 week layoff has to make even the sternest of folks uneasy.
4.) Cowtown Cat- He definitely was the beneficiary of a free and clear trip in Illinois, but he validated what I considered to be a questionable win in the Gotham.
5-8.) Deadly Dealer, Sam P., King of the Roxy, Soaring By, etc.- I don't think any of these have a great shot, but we'll learn more about DD and Soaring By this week and next week.

I think it's a little premature to say that Todd P won't even get in the superfecta.

NT



well i do feel very strong about this i dont think he has any shot to win the derby i think his whole stable of 3 year olds is overrated and none of them did anything this past saturday to make me feel any different about them.


Any given saturday runs horrible

Sam p and King of the roxy cant beat a maiden winner in Tiago

The only one who won was Cowtown cat and i will just agree with what you said above.....

I will rank them though

Circular Quay
Rags to riches

those are the top 2 in my opinion

Buffymommy 04-09-2007 12:39 PM

AGS and Scat Daddy are tied for me on top. Then CQ and Cowtown Cat. The rest shouldn't be in the derby. IMO

Hickory Hill Hoff 04-10-2007 06:31 AM

Scat Daddy
Any Given Saturday
Circular Quay
Cowtown Cat
Sam P.

...wouldn't be surprise if none of the Pletcher trainees are the top three betting interest in the Derby.

XIIPointStables 04-10-2007 07:29 AM

Maybe they won't win, but as Jim Mazur has pointed out over at Prog Handicap, the "other Pletcher" angle is always fun to keep an eye on, especially on big days.

When he has two or more horses in the race and one of them is not the "name" horse, you gotta take a second look.

I think the most recent big one that I can remember is Bluegrass Cat hitting for 2nd in the KD last year. I'm sure there are others - wasn't Invisible Ink a Pletcher horse?

Payson Dave 04-10-2007 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985
....i'd be shocked if a pletcher horses makes the superfecta.

It remains to be seen where the Pletcher horses end up finishing in the Derby...but somehow I doubt if very many knowledgeable handicappers would be shocked if one or more of his colts finished in the top four...

Twenty bucks says he has a finisher in the top 4....

bet or no bet???

POINTGIVEN1985 04-10-2007 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave
It remains to be seen where the Pletcher horses end up finishing in the Derby...but somehow I doubt if very many knowledgeable handicappers would be shocked if one or more of his colts finished in the top four...

Twenty bucks says he has a finisher in the top 4....

bet or no bet???

lol bet........... pm your info and i will pm my info back to you, a check gets sent the monday after the derby

ArlJim78 04-10-2007 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave
It remains to be seen where the Pletcher horses end up finishing in the Derby...but somehow I doubt if very many knowledgeable handicappers would be shocked if one or more of his colts finished in the top four...

Twenty bucks says he has a finisher in the top 4....

bet or no bet???

knowledgeable is the operative word here.

Payson Dave 04-10-2007 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985
lol bet........... pm your info and i will pm my info back to you, a check gets sent the monday after the derby

If I win...document a donation to the Disabled Jockeys fund...If I lose let me know where you want the 20 bucks sent

Sightseek 04-10-2007 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
4.) Cowtown Cat- He definitely was the beneficiary of a free and clear trip in Illinois, but he validated what I considered to be a questionable win in the Gotham.


NT

And this free and clear trip didn't raise more questions of this horses actual talent?

NTamm1215 04-10-2007 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek
And this free and clear trip didn't raise more questions of this horses actual talent?

Ranking fourth among PLETCHER horses while the ones below are either not pointing to the Derby or lack experience really doesn't require a great deal of talent. I don't think Cowtown Cat is a legit Derby contender but I do think he's been slightly underestimated.

NT

Kasept 04-10-2007 08:52 AM

1. Any Given Saturday: Came in unprepared to Wood; Got reaction race out of the way; Gets extra week to ready for Derby. Is best served splitting field early and coming with a sustained run. Most similar recent Pletcher Derby runner? Bluegrass Cat.

2. Cowtown Cat: Doesn't have same running style, but appears to be this year's version of Pletcher '01 runner-up Invisible Ink. Ran deceptively good race at HAW (:24.4, :24.3, :24.0, :25.0, :12.4 (:37.4). Is a horse that will relish 10f.

3. Scat Daddy: Only Derby Trail candidate coming with classic style 2yo-3yo campaign including Hopeful, Champaign, BC Juvy, FOY, FL Derby. Seasoned and professional; Distance an issue. Closing times weak. Most similar recent Pletcher Derby runner? More Than Ready.

4. Deadly Dealer: May end up being best of T.A.P. runners if not rushed, but strong showing in Arky would be no surprise. Most similar recent Pletcher Derby runner? Balto Star.

5. Circular Quay: Barn pet is plucky, frail colt.. Hard to believe he can be held together for Derby and runs risk of being demolished physically if he goes.. Claims made for passing of Wood a prevarication. Most similar recent Pletcher Derby runner? Different style but as precarious as Bandini.

6. King of the Roxy: Wisely pointing away from Derby. Clearly shouldn't be asked to go beyond 9f, but could carry the 9.75 at PIM with a tailwind. Most similar recent Pletcher Derby runner? Pollard's Vision.

6. Sam P.: Santa Anita Derby try fell short, but seems like a nice horse. The kind that will keep turning up ITM in the stakes tries. Most similar recent Pletcher Derby runner? Limehouse.

Sightseek 04-10-2007 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

5. Circular Quay: Barn pet is plucky, frail colt.. Hard to believe he can be held together for Derby and runs risk of being demolished physically if he goes.. Claims made for passing of Wood a prevarication. Most similar recent Pletcher Derby runner? Different style but as precarious as Bandini.

.

Pletcher, in the bluntest response I've ever seen him give on National TV, insists that there is nothing wrong with Quay and people are wrong for thinking so. I could be naive but I think it is more of a case of Pletcher wanting to give Saturday a better chance to get into Derby.

Cajungator26 04-10-2007 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985
lol bet........... pm your info and i will pm my info back to you, a check gets sent the monday after the derby

Damn, you're going to be broke after the derby!

brianwspencer 04-10-2007 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
Scat Daddy
Any Given Saturday
Circular Quay (don't think he's in the gate for the derby, though.)
Cowtown Cat
Deadly Dealer
Sam P
King of the Roxy
Soaring By

All ahead of Steet Sense?

Cajungator26 04-10-2007 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
All ahead of Steet Sense?

We're ranking Pletcher's horses... but nice try. LOL

brianwspencer 04-10-2007 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
We're ranking Pletcher's horses... but nice try. LOL

OOPS!

That explains why it made so little sense :D

Cajungator26 04-10-2007 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
OOPS!

That explains why it made so little sense :D

Haha... yeah, if I had to rank them PERIOD right now, it would be:

Scat Daddy
Notional
Great Hunter
Street Sense
Zanjero

philcski 04-10-2007 11:12 AM

1. Circular Quay: The most accomplished and best suited to win the Derby... except Pletcher blew up his chances by skipping the final round of preps. Too bad because I thought this might be the one that gets it done for him.
Most similar: Thunder Gulch (not trained in name by Pletcher, but he was under his care when he won the Derby. Interestingly, his sire.)

2. Any Given Saturday: Drops a notch after the Wood disappointment, but has the best chance of actually winning on the first Saturday in May. The lack of a graded win despite 3 golden chances is a big negative. Big chance to be close at the end. Most similar: Bluegrass Cat (interestingly, also owned by Winstar).

3. Scat Daddy: Won early and often, but has stretched out successfully as well. Seems to find his way into a perfect setup every time, which is a good thing, but always seems to crawl home (which isn't). I've underrated him the whole way and I may be again here... Most similar: More than Ready (interestingly, also owned by Scatuorchio.)

4. Deadly Dealer: Could be the best of the group in the end, but not seasoned enough for the pinball machine that is the Derby. Have a feeling wins the Arkansas Derby and Pletcher (unwisely) sends him. Most similar: Flower Alley.

5. Cowtown Cat: Horrific name for a $1.5MM purchase, but a gorgeous animal. Just don't think he's all that fast and the Illinois field this year was suspect, at best. A likely midpack finisher. Most similar: Coin Silver.

6. King of the Roxy: Has the 2YO success, but lacks the ability at 2 turns required. Will be a killer at elongated sprints. Most similar: Keyed Entry.

7. Sam P.: A plugger who doesn't give up, but clearly lacks the talent of the top of the group. If the whole front end blows up he could catch a piece of the tri/super. Most similar: Impeachment.

Sightseek 04-10-2007 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
1. Circular Quay: The most accomplished and best suited to win the Derby... except Pletcher blew up his chances by skipping the final round of preps. Too bad because I thought this might be the one that gets it done for him.
Most similar: Thunder Gulch (not trained in name by Pletcher, but he was under his care when he won the Derby. Interestingly, his sire.)

2. Any Given Saturday: Drops a notch after the Wood disappointment, but has the best chance of actually winning on the first Saturday in May. The lack of a graded win despite 3 golden chances is a big negative. Big chance to be close at the end. Most similar: Bluegrass Cat (interestingly, also owned by Winstar).

3. Scat Daddy: Won early and often, but has stretched out successfully as well. Seems to find his way into a perfect setup every time, which is a good thing, but always seems to crawl home (which isn't). I've underrated him the whole way and I may be again here... Most similar: More than Ready (interestingly, also owned by Scatuorchio.)

4. Deadly Dealer: Could be the best of the group in the end, but not seasoned enough for the pinball machine that is the Derby. Have a feeling wins the Arkansas Derby and Pletcher (unwisely) sends him. Most similar: Flower Alley.

5. Cowtown Cat: Horrific name for a $1.5MM purchase, but a gorgeous animal. Just don't think he's all that fast and the Illinois field this year was suspect, at best. A likely midpack finisher. Most similar: Coin Silver.

6. King of the Roxy: Has the 2YO success, but lacks the ability at 2 turns required. Will be a killer at elongated sprints. Most similar: Keyed Entry.

7. Sam P.: A plugger who doesn't give up, but clearly lacks the talent of the top of the group. If the whole front end blows up he could catch a piece of the tri/super. Most similar: Impeachment.

So considering your luck with Pletcher horses I can expect my boy to do the best of them all? :p

Buffymommy 04-10-2007 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
All ahead of Steet Sense?


We are talking about Pletcher horses Brian. SS is not trained by Pletcher.

Sorry. Forgot to click "NEXT PAGE". :)

philcski 04-10-2007 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek
So considering your luck with Pletcher horses I can expect my boy to do the best of them all? :p

Probably accurate :p

Payson Dave 05-05-2007 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave
It remains to be seen where the Pletcher horses end up finishing in the Derby...but somehow I doubt if very many knowledgeable handicappers would be shocked if one or more of his colts finished in the top four...

Twenty bucks says he has a finisher in the top 4....

bet or no bet???

PG85, Where do you want the 20 bucks sent??


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:24 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.