Racing product is Fine?
 

I kinda disagree.I really get tired of the dismal cards at a lot of tracks.
Can this guy say the product is fine after seeing the inner track races being carded at Aqueduct?I tend to agree more with Steven Crist.
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37975

Crist is right. They need less tracks and more breaks. No NY winter meet would be a start.

I think we need 8 total tracks and a culling of the horse/trainer/jockey population.

the big a needs to go, saratoga needs to stay open a month longer and belmont needs to open at the begining of march so they can run derby preps still........i guess something like this Belmont March 1- July 1........... Saratoga July 3- Labor day.........Belmont A week after labor day-December 1

no Ny racing from dec 2- march 1

Saratoga
Belmont
Keeneland
Churchill
Santa Anita
Del Mar
Gulfstream
Arlington

These should be the only operating racetracks in my opinion. Limit the trainers and jockeys and make purses huge. It will get rid of the chaff.

Similar to how Hong Kong operates but on a bit larger scale.

i like my idea

i totally disagree but god where do i beginlol? racing definately needs to survive in maryland in my opinion. how can you exclude some of the smaller tracks that are up and coming like tampa, remington, zia, sunland, and other places that are also doing well like mountaineer, and turfway which runs generally fuller races during the winter for the lower level kentucky horses and the nearby ohio stock?youd not only be stopping alotta tracks that are doing well youd also be putting alotta people alotta work and probaly alotta families homeless as well. youd also be turning away even more fans which the sport doesnt need to lose anymore as itd be difficult for them to attend live racing, also itd exclude the smaller owners in the game. i can go on and on but i think you get my point

I get your point, I promise. But I think the game needs to rid itself of all the things you suggest keeping. Most fans don't attend live racing anyway. The key is quality racing for huge purses. And a few tracks and horsemen sharing all of the gambling dollars versus many people getting a piece of the pie. This is just my opinion though. I understand your viewpoint.

i still like my idea, for ny racing that is

Maybe in the future we will just assume that people like their own suggestions. We probably do not need a post affirming each one.

Great idea!!!!

lol, i get it

Personally,I think it all comes down to the fault of the breeding that is going on.
Polytrack,Slots,is not the answer or the cure.The breeding needs to improve.If you increase the purses,and put them on Polytrack,it is still the same miserable,chronic losers,now they are just running for a higher purse.
We need more than just the Northern Dancer line.Sure,the Fasig Tipton sale numbers went through the roof,but that just tells me there were some big ego's being massaged at the sale.Green Monkey can't even run,so how can he be a valuable commodity in the breeding shed worth 16 million?Tabor got robbed,in my book.
I personally believe we need to look to Japan for some answers.This is a country that has taken racing to a new level.They still race at all the classic distances,and their breeding programs are to die for.Their horses race DRUG FREE,and at preview sales shows,the horses are not allowed to go faster than 13 seconds a furlong,whips not allowed.Maiden special weight races have purses for 100k!! Track attendance is a sellout everyday.
So no,I do not think the racing product is fine in the USA.

Geld every male thoroughbred born in this country for the next 5 years...every single one. That would thin out everything. They will have to race, the breeding industry would take a hit but keep going as there are more than enough stallions that will live those 5 years to keep the breed going...who's gonna pay 20 million at auctions for these precocious gelded yearlings or 2 yr olds?? 10 years doing this may actually be better. Not that it's a real solution...but I still like it!!

That still would not do it ,I think.What they need is a shot of some new blood,something that doesn't have all this Northern Dancer in it.And without all this inbreeding that has happened.The breed is so polluted it isn't funny.
Someone had a thread going on here along these lines.

Yes, I certainly do. But not to the extent I think we need it here. Australia has a racecourse in every little town, but some of them only run 1 day a year.

And they don't have as bad of a problem of "too many races" when you consider the level of interest of the general public and the distribution of the gambling dollar in Australia comparitively when based on population size.

Their purses are fairly low though, and I think the smaller tracks/trainers/jockeys will be forced to shut down in the next 10-15 years.

Australia has a similar problem to us in that they have so many different governing groups. For instance, in Victoria you have the Moonee Valley Racing Club, the Melbourne Racing Club, and the VRC. All of these Clubs have full staffing and office space, etc... when one could do it easily. Same thing in Sydney with the AJC and STC.

Too many people have their finger in the pot in both countries. And the respective industries cannot support that many people.

The sob stories of "taking someone's living" don't make much sense when the entire sport is suffering so someone can run their $5,000 claimer at Beulah.

Ease of entry isn't necessarily the best thing for a sport that wants to compete on a national level with the other professional sports. How easy is it to own an NFL, NBA, or MLB franchise? Or how easy is it to get a racing team in Nascar?

Maybe horse racing should be the same.

I'll admit that part of the charm of horse racing is the rags-to-riches stories that come out seemingly every year, but maybe those stories will go the same way of horses running every two weeks, carrying high weights, and being able to run further than 6 furlongs.

Actually, I think its the other way around, the Japanese are STILL learning from us, not vice versa.

If you spend time on the grounds and in the Sales Pavilion at Keeneland (or Fasig Tipton) you'll quickly note how many of the Japanese agents are there, buying our horses. The still know where to buy good horses.

Three of Japan's horses of recent years come to mind.

(1) As far as the breeding program, SUNDAY SILENCE is the greatest coup the Japanese ever pulled off. EVER. And the majority of their good runners, certainly, have been sired by this legend.

(2) On the other hand, another American purchase the Japanese made, was our great Kentucky Derby Winner, FERDINAND. When he was no longer useful to them, he was hauled up on a meat truck and sent to slaughter.

Dudes, why didn't you folks give somone in the old USA a call? We would gladly have paid the shipping to bring him home.

They didn't.

(3) The most recent Icon of their breeding program, DEEP IMPACT is another sired by Sunday Silence. This one couldn't lose, the greatest thing since rice. He was shipped to France last October, where he went off at near even money in the Arc de Triomphe.

The entire country, it appeared, was in the stands and on the rail, to watch their champion. Their screams turned silent as they watched him beaten by the great French turf trainer, Andre Fabre's, RAIL LINK, who on that day I had wagered to win. Deep Impact finished a disappointing third, and days later, it was announced he tested POSITIVE for an illegal drug.

would lose a lot of race dates with those winter tracks. need them down south like fair grounds gulfstream sam houston south cal. tracks

You're right .They are learning from us.On what NOT to do!!!Of course they buy horses here.Everyone does.But they also buy them in other countries also.
You mention Ferdinand getting butchered.One horse.How about the THOUSANDS that go to slaughter here every year.Like we have such a great record on that topic.
Gee,Deep Impact finished third in the Arc.Not bad.
The trainer got popped.One out of how many?
In our country,trainers get popped left and right every week.And get a slap on the hand.I guarantee this Japanese trainer will be publicly shamed,and lucky to keep his job.So yeah,I think they are learning from us

We disagree, and that's fine.

Over the last 20+ years, many of the top US breds have left our shores. Before the mid 80's the # of top runners that went overseas permanently was pretty small. Mr Mellon raced some in Europe as did Bunker Hunt. Once the Sangster crew then the Sheikhs then Coolmore and the Japanese began spending like sailors in port, a significant % of the elite members of the breed left for good.
The international quality of racing is great except that there are almost no outcrosses left. In the 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's when breeders saw stagnation they imported. Horses like Sir Gallahad, Bull Dog, Blenheim, Princequillo and Nasrullah added to the breed here. Now you travel to the ends of the globe and get what? A Northern Dancer great grandson, from Raise Native on the bottom. Now with horses covering in both hemispheres, international leases and the ease of shipping, finding full outcrosses is rare.

I am not in favor of having only "A" tracks any more than I endorse baseball dropping the lowest performing teams. What exactly would happen to the rest of the animals? Sure over time moderate to small breeders would just stop producing horses but then what? Where do all those slow Storm Cat's go? You must consider the entire industry. Hundreds of thousands of people depend on racing for their livelihood. The breeder, at any level hires help, vets and farriers. They buy products like feed, strap goods, blankets, buckets and fencing from folks who are also dependent upon racing breeders. The trainers and their staff obviously are employed in the game but those who provide them services and goods also need the industry to thrive. The 30,000+ registered TB's foaled each season will generate millions of dollars in accounts payable to everyone from vets to leather goods makers to accountants and hay growers.

I'm sure everyone wants to run a one turn mile and an eighth for a derby prep. The Big A is what it is. The inner dirt makes you appreciate the rest of the year in N.Y. There are still some good races on the inner, just not every day. Take a look at Wednesdays card.

So did you actually attend the Arc, and see the throngs of Japanese fans and hear their screams? Because if you didn't where did you get that information? I thought the point of your response was that the Japanese are still learning from us about horse racing. Why then would you seem to take such delight in recounting both the number and sadness of the Japanese fans? Was that somehow the wrong thing to do, to travel to Paris to cheer for their hero? Was your winning wager somehow sweeter because you knew how disappointed those people were?

No Deep Impact didn't win that race, and who knows why he raced on the lead anyway. But its only fair to mention that as shattered as the Japanese fans dreams were for their hero, they weren't as bad off as the fans of the reigning Arc champion and at that time current #1 ranked horse in the world Hurricane Run who was badly beaten that day by Deep Impact. Did you happen to notice their silence, or were you only focused on the sadness of the Japanese fans?

Or how about another failure on that day, the leading charge of trainer Andre Fabre, Shirocco? Surely there were pockets of German backers of Shirocco that were crushed.

No non-European horse has ever won the Arc. I think they took a big risk and were very sporting to give it a go. That they found trace amounts of a drug in his system that is legal in Japan I file under the heading "What a Shocker!"
Anyway I somehow doubt that we are the model to follow or learn from when it comes to drugs in horses.

Breaking the previous record held by: Pearl Harbor.

ouch!


i have to say i strongly disagree with something i read the other day from a breeder. he said that racing is to show who deserves to breed future generations. i think that those on the track who win show that their SIRE is the one who deserves to breed future generations!! on track success means nothing regarding that horses future--but everything to his sires future. too many people have lost that point. citation and coal town showed everyone what bull lea could do--he was a top sire for years with good reason, he sired good horses. citation was a heck of a racehorse, but a dismal failure as a sire. had everyone gone to his daddy to breed they'd have been far better off.

it's amazing to me how many derby winners fail at stud, yet every year everyone makes a mad dash to get the winner for their farm. it's crazy.

I assume that you are referring to barry Irwin's comments.
I agree with him to a certain extent. Racings origins were in "improvement of the breed" and racing was just done to prove which animals deserved to reproduce. The issue I have is that what constitutes "proof" has changed, and diminished over the decades. With that change the breed has weakened. "Proof" used to involve 3 or more seasons of racing, taking on the best of challengers, carrying weight while usually racing 30 or 40 times. Horse transport was far more difficult "in the day" and yet horses shipped all over the country to race.
The current definition of "proof" involves earning a high BSF at 2 and maybe winning something at 3. For a "classic" colt, it means completing the TC. All you have to do is get throught the Belmont and somehow now you are a "top stallion prospect." You don't have to win the classics, just run and survive them. Forty or more years ago such horses were the cannon fodder for everyday races 2 years past their TC tries. Today they are elite stallion prospects.

By 2015, the fastest working 2yo at the sales will be bought and promptly retired, with nothing left to prove.

Didn't they already do that with Holy Roman Emperor?

See, I am a woman ahead of my time. :D

Here is The Crist article
http://www.drf.com/news/article/83135.html

Some racing venues require that a horse finish 4th or better once in a certain number of races, or a certain time to remain eligible to race.

If a horse cannot earn a recognizable BSF, it should not be racing in NY.