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English Channel- Track Record
English Channel ran 1 1/8 miles in an impressive 1:44.51 which is a new track record. I dont really know how many quality horses have run 1 1/8 over Gulfstream's turf course but that still is an impressive time and victory. Hopefully he will make his trip to Dubai a victorious one and come back to the states and finish out his season impressively. I bet the connections are regretting not running him in the G1 this weekend.
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Wisely, a trainer as competent as Pletcher knows that it would be a folly to bring a horse like that back, in a 3-turn, 11 furlong turf race. The fractions in the GP BC Turf last year went in 26 and change and 51 2/5ths. An agressive horse, like EC, who sometimes pulls hard in the early stages of his races, would not settle well at all in a race like that. Especially fresh and off the layoff I'm sure EC could have beaten that field, even after being strangled for a few furlongs, but that is just a tremendously silly spot to bring a horse like him back in. |
Anyone who actually believes the times Gulfstream posts for their turf races must also believe in elves and fairies ( which leaves DrugS open ).
I guess second place finisher, the mighty Mending Fences, must be the early US favorite for the BC Mile. |
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You intolerant bastard |
hes not doing that well from what i see.. struggled to win today vs ..in reality 50 claimers......
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I'm not so sure he struggled....that will probably come when he faces real horses in Dubai.
I'd say he ran a fairly ideal comeback race. Now he's feed for the wolves |
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It was probably more like 27 and change and 53 flat. Einstein won wire-to-wire, but if you remember the race---Cornelio Velasquez got in a world class wrestling match with Gun Salute to keep him off the lead. |
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you ain't baiting me with that sh*t. You have seen enough races in your life to know what you saw today. I was glad to see he was no where near as rank early on as he has been in the past. Settled much better today. |
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None taking bro...the track record don't mean much really. I was just telling hooves he wasn't baiting me with that "hes not doing well from what I see" comment. Johnny never touched him...shook him a few times...but never touched him. It was a perfect comeback race that I doubt took anything at all out of him. |
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You didn't really just refer to English Channel as " great "....right? |
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He's a non-gelded multiple grade 1 winner still running at 5. That's great, even if he isn't in the classic sense.
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Being better than weak competition is nowhere close to greatness. English Channel is an exceptionally good horse, who has kept his form for a long time now, and he's a commendable racehorse. However, he has never overcome a scintilla of adversity or beaten a particularly good horse. No, it's not his fault the competition has been weak, but he has failed to deliver even a marginally good effort in his three biggest races....the Arlington Million and two BC Turfs.
Take a look at some of the races Theatrical and Manila ran back in the late 80s. I'm not sure they were great....but they would have devoured English Channel. Theatrical won six or seven Grade 1s in 1987, from February through November, and Manila easily bested him in that year's Arlington Million ( unfortunately his last start ). Now those were really exceptional horses. |
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It's really just a pet peeve of mine...the way " great " is thrown around. And, having seen some truly remarkable horses over the years it bothers me the casualness with which people throw around the term. I feel insulted for the few great ones there were that they are thrown into the same category as so many lessers we have seen recently. These days we don't even get a chance to find out if a horse is great, as they get retired so quickly, and for that reason I guess we should be happy English Channel is still around.
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Help me Andy...in all sincerity...give me your view of why the AM or the 2 BC Turf races were not even "marginally good" |
To me he looked impressive today and could have a great year. He is 5, afterall.
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Let's be honest, the primary reason he is still racing is most likely that he has very little stud value, and may be worth more racing. I'm not complaining, as I am glad he's around and look forward to betting against him, just being realistic.
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From the forms and charts I've studied, and films I've seen, I would cast a vote for Manilla as the best American turf horse of all-time. I actually thought English Channel's 3rd in the Breeders Cup Turf was a pretty solid effort---the two horses who beat him were aided by a ridiciously fast pace, and came from last and 2nd to last. |
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Losing by three lengths in turf races is like losing by six on the dirt in my opinion. |
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He was 3 YO and that was his first race EVER against older horses....and he was the top finishing American horse in that race....and was moved too early as well. |
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One of Theatrical's Grade 1s that year was bogus, as Dance of Life drowned him in the Sword Dancer at Belmont and got unjustifiably Dq'd. Of course, Manila also lost the Bernard Baruch to Talakeno in his prep for the Arlington Million. |
Andy, who were the last two great horses on turf and dirt? Just curious
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surely Sun King...:rolleyes: |
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He certainly really showed up when the chips were down---Manilla won all 5 of his career attempts in Grade 1 races. Including shipping to Southern California and beating the deepest BC Turf field of all time. |
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I'm pretty stingy, but Skip Away and Formal Gold certainly came close IMO, and maybe Manila on the turf. I'm not sure I would call her great but Ouiji Board sure feels pretty special. But it's hard for me to get a real handle on Euros. Come to think of it, Lure may have been close. |
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But, Manila was a tiger that day. I was actually there. |
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deep breaths....it was a joke. |
Ghostzapper could've been. Woulda coulda shoulda...story of this goddamn game the past few decades.
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I think Mineshaft was a terrific horse. |
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Thanks for clearing that up.....I was very upset. I was just about to start a thread saying I was leaving. |
I haven't been around racing long enough to characterize any horse as "great", I so know jack sh*t basically:D
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