Dems should hang their head for not beating this ass hole last November. They knew very well he's an a hole, and they deserve the ass kicking they are getting. Yea, he didn't say he was gunna do this, but what did you expect the a hole to do? He's got a majority in both bodies. He's gunna do everything in his power to have two types of people in Wisconsin (have, have nots.) This is what they do (no middle.) They don't like a 3 class system, and this is what happens when you vote for someone with a (R.) Duh. I don't understand why people are demonstrating. Damn it. Let them show you what happens when Republicans have their way. They are (by nature) extreme people. Let them show that. Evidently, people need a reminder.

You think the DEM's leaving their post and hiding was a good thing? and the ones in hiding were the ones calling the shots?


I don't know Michael & Jesse personally but as far as their political views they appear to align with yours and if not maybe you could explain how they differ


Ror!! don't worry I will grade on a curve
Riot = :zz:

Signed, sealed, delivered. The bill is passed. Now time to get on with budgetary reform in Wisconsin.

i'm not familiar with this fellow, but they ran this article in the local paper-so i googled it, and here's the article... had stuff in it i hadn't seen mentioned before, either in the discussion here or elsewhere.. thought i'd post it. of course i'll probably hear this guy is a whack job or something..if so, i'll know better next time.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ket-rich-lowry

an excerpt:

Even if Walker prevails, Wisconsin will allow more wide-ranging collective bargaining than these states.

Not to mention the federal government. Obama may lecture Walker about union rights, but he can go straight to Congress with a highly political proposal to freeze the pay of federal workers because they can’t collectively bargain for wages or benefits.

(this is a part that intrigued me) No, the most important measure at stake in Wisconsin is the governor’s proposal for the state to stop deducting union dues from the paychecks of state workers. This practice essentially wields the taxing power of the government on behalf of the institutional interests of the unions. It makes the government an arm of the public-sector unions. It is a priceless favor.


and further down:

When Indiana governor Mitch Daniels ended collective bargaining and the automatic collection of dues in 2005, the number of members paying dues plummeted by roughly 90 percent.


now, is this a major issue? i could see where it could be. if dues aren't automatic, but become voluntary, perhaps the unions would find they aren't quite so popular, based on indiana.....no wonder the union is so upset! can you imagine your income dropping 90%??

:tro:

This is exactly the reason why the democrats have been fighting this so hard. They have been funding their campaigns thru required union dues for years. Riot will claim that the Koch brothers are doing the same for Walker, however the fact is the Koch brothers use their own $ and not the mandated union dues of the teachers to fund their campaigns. The Koch brothers also contributed less than $50k towards Walker's campaign whereas the teachers union contributed $1.57 million to 4 democrats.

In the bill Walker removed the residency restrictions for Milw city workers (police, fire fighters, etc) and MPS teachers. In the past they were required to live in the city of Milwaukee. Now they are not. Imagine that the republicans giving freedoms back to the people and allowing them to choose where they want to live. Democrats including Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett are furious over this and are totally against giving workers the freedom to live where they want, but again they know what is best for the workers. Why give them a choice?

i figured the union was so adamant about the changes because they don't want to lose union membership, thus losing money. but when i read that article today...well, it sure put a new spin on things. why the dems were so against it-it's not budgetary, except where their campaigns are concerned apparently.

it also makes me wonder about the supreme court ruling regarding companies donating to campaigns....some people were so against that ruling-but how many are perfectly ok with unions donating tons of dough? aren't unions really a business? interesting stuff.

Back when I was in the Teamsters Union, they would send us the voting guide for all the various things on ballots....candidates..propositions, and who the Teamsters supported. If you were a Dem...they supported you. If they didnt like you or it was a Rep running...there was no endorsement.

In chicago, there is a mob boss in jail for life who used to control their pension fund. :zz:

murder was just his hobby I guess.

Whoops. Nope. Tied up in the courts .... which makes the election, in 3 weeks, of Wisconsin Supreme Court judges extremely important.

Those 120,000 people in Wisconsin this past weekend seem to be voting for the underdog Democrat, rather than the 12-year incumbent Republican. We'll see what happens!

:zz: That's what the Democrats have said since day one about this fiasco. It's even on this thread. It's surely no "new spin" :D

Remember? That's why the GOP governors made union busting a priority this year? Because first they passed the Citizens United ruling eliminated restrictions on campaign donations by corporations.

Out of the top ten corps giving to $$ to political campaigns nationally, 7 are Republican, 3 are Democratic. The 3 Democratic are unions. If the GOP union-busts, yes, that eliminates those three unions, those three top Democratic political funders, leaving the GOP corporations entirely in charge, financially, of our elections.

The Republican Party has markedly and permanently changed in the past 10 years. They are now a wholly-owned subsidiary of corporate America. The GOP platform now - and look at every GOP governor's actions, and the House GOP, right now, both state and national levels, is this:

1. Impress that there is a severe budget crisis requiring "emergency measures" and "emergency powers" and "sudden action"
2. Use "crisis" as an excuse for cutting and slashing everything one can out of a budget, but from the lower and middle classes only: funding for schools, aid programs, abortion rights, planned parenthood, OSHA, FDA, prisons, etc. - everything.
3. Continue giving huge tax cuts and incentives to corporations
4. Attempt to privatize what survives: schools, vouchers, security at prisons, government, everything

What do you guys think about an emergency edict that enables a State governor to appoint a "manager", to go in and take over individual town governments, and usurp the duties of elected officials? (current bill that already passed the House in Michigan)

What about a State governor who takes away the right of individual towns to set their own local tax rates and improve their own local schools? (the bill Walker just signed in Wisconsin)


And they call Obama communist? What the GOP governors are trying to do is beyond crazy! This is scary stuff.

Well, if any of what you said made much sense, or actually answered questions posed, we could go there. But I had a lovely relaxing weekend, so will leave you to your own brand of crazy. Ror!! ;)

Walker union busting bill case - restraining order issued
 

Judge puts a restraining order on the Walker bill. Does not mean it's overturned, just means enough evidence for violation of the law during passage (violation of open meetings act) to hear the case. The bill was to be published, thus become law, March 25. The restraining order puts that on hold until the case is decided.

Public unions should be banned. This is just another of countless examples.

On Thursday, unions representing the Wisconsin Professional Police Association; the Professional Fire Fighters of Wisconsin; the International Association of Fire Fighters Local 311; Madison Teachers Inc.; Green Bay Education Association; Dane County Deputy Sheriff's Association; and the Madison Professional Police Officers Association said it would boycott M&I Bank if the bank does not begin publicly opposing Gov. Scott Walker's efforts to curtail collective bargaining for public workers.
On Friday, Kwik Trip was added.
In the letter, the groups said the boycott would begin Thursday, March 17, if the bank and Kwik Trip don't oppose Walker.
Jim Palmer, executive director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, said Friday the companies were targeted for either supporting Walker directly, or its executives supported Walker's campaign, or because the companies are members of Wisconsin Manufacturers & Commerce, a pro-business group that supported the governor, or all three.

This just shows the union thugs at their best and the scare tactics that they are using. Again it is all about the kids and doing what is right to educate the children properly.

Jim Palmer is so dumb that he can't even figure out that the employees of Kwik Trip actually contributed more to democrats than republicans.

"Union thugs" ??? - LOL Who are they physically beating? Way to go with the hyperbole.

Try a far more accurate description: "free market solution" or "voting with your feet and dollars".

It was independent firefighters that started that boycott of M & I Bank, before any of the unions got involved. They were in Madison to protest, and all went across the street into the bank and withdrew their money - about $200,000 worth that afternoon. The bank closed that afternoon in fear of a run.

It was so successful, that everyone else picked up on it.

People are completely entitled to use whatever merchants they wish - and to boycott those whose behaviour they do not like. Worked for Glenn Beck.

Merchants in Wisconsin, who donated to Republicans, are not going to get certain people's business. It's a simple as that. Donation lists are public.

Let the people decide. That's the pure capitalist way ;)

My definition of a thug or a bully is someone who threatens someone if they do not act in the way that the thug or bully demands them to. Your definition may be different.

Also FYI- $200k to M&I (now Harris Bank a canadian bank) is really nothing and already I am positive that republicans have deposited more money into that bank to offset it.

No one boycotted North Shore Bank(local WI bank) when they and governor Doyle ran a government subsidized home buying program for illegal aliens. Why not, because the media didn't pick up on it and the democrats weren't losing their precious campaign funds from a union.

maybe now that they rec'd a temporary stay, the union supporters will back off on the death threats. not likely but we can hope.

the whole concept of the union is to coerce or bully another party to get their way. whether its a state or government body or a company, the union basically puts a gun to their head and says you'll give us these wages and benefits or else we'll shut everything down. physical violence and intimidation are all part of their sop.

I go with the time-tested dictionary definition of the word "thug" (you didn't say bully) which is a cutthroat, hoodlum. violent person. The historical definition of a "union thug" referred to union members who were physically violent.

Because, you know, that's what those words "mean" when they are used.

Good for them! That's a free market solution, to which I'm sure you do not have the same objection as you expressed about the people taking money out.

The manger of M & I got a free VP slot at Harris Bank Chicago after the sale :tro:

Guess people were not as pissed off then, as they are at Walker and the current GOP group up there.

Also, it makes perfect sense to publicly boycott a WI based business like Kwik Trip who does so much good for the community and it citizens. They didn't speak out one way or the other. They are just targeted by yes Union THUGS. Real classy. Ever hear of the Freedom Honor Flight? sponsored by Kwik Trip, there is so much more. I personally will be supporting Kwik trip as much as possible because of this.

Not very common in current times, especially with those unions who are prevented by contract from striking, but hey, hyperbole helps the case I guess.

The weeks of peaceful, non-violent protest in Wisconsin, for example. Yeah, lots of "physical violence" "beating" and "intimidation" going on there :D

Down with unions! They are the current fad scapegoat! Kindergarten teachers suck and threaten me! The Republicans told me so!

If you believe that the people are being peaceful and non threatening you really are a fool. Any one ever threaten your life or your family? I know that would not be considered peaceful in my world

Good for you! That's your right and freedom, as an American, to support the businesses you want to, based upon the owners political leanings.

So it's strange you made a negative post about other people doing exactly what you are doing - voting their social-political conscience with their pocketbooks. You called those other people violent thugs. But you don't think you are a violent thug? For doing the exact same thing?

You simply can't have a political discussion without calling names, can you?

I've watched tons of YouTube videos and news converage of the protests at Wisconsin, and have talked to friends that attended. Peaceful and non-threatening is a terrific description of the hundreds of thousands of people that attended, and you know it.

Yeah, there are always a few idiots who break the law, and they should be pursued. Were they the majority in Wisconsin? Nope - there were only a few. Out of hundreds of thousands.

So don't try to paint the Wisconsin protests as anything different, as that would be a clear lie, wouldn't it?

You mean like the Tea Baggers on YouTube who talk to the news media about killing the President?

Excuse me, but public unions are not a "current fad scapegoat." They have manipulated the public trust many years to put themselves at the end of the plank. It's time they are outlawed.

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Doesn't seem to be shared by many.

But yes, in the recent public political discourse of the past 10 years, "Bust the Unions! They are evil and the cause of all our budget problems!" has only made a huge public presence since the Koch Brothers held the last Republican Governors Association meeting, and the GOP governors were told to say it and do it before the 2012 elections. Bush certainly never had a problem with it.

Google News item search on "outlaw unions" number of stories:
2000 17
2001 34
2002 9
2003 17
2004 21
2005 19
2006 22
2007 28
2008 51
2009 46
2010 71
2011 336

Yes, indeed, the "current fad scapegoat". After Muslims, of course.

and President Obama!

Riot,

just out of curiosity do you support Gay Marriage?

Pravda says Obama has spent over 2mil to conceal his citizenship! I'm laughing

Now there is an independent source. Are you sure President Obama isn't really an alien? Perhaps from one of Saturn's moons....

I know your question wasn't to me but I'll respond...Absolutely!!

The real secret is that the black, Kenyan, Muslim side of the family stories are just a distraction for the public. The true, shocking secrets are found within the white, Kansas, rural, American, war veterans side of the family!

Maybe your views align closer to the evil Koch brothers than to president Obama then.

I share quite a few political views with the Koch brothers.

Except for their desire to literally purchase as much of our government as they can, purchase control towards their own self-reward and self-interest.

I don't get it. You don't like a private person contributing their own $ towards a politician or a particular political party to help their interests, but you have no issue with public mandates (ie. required union dues) where a large sum of the money goes towards a particular political party to help them.

No. That's a completely false statement.

Sorry - that argument is null, completely a false equivalency.

Unions dues are not "public mandates". Is that like "thug" no longer means violent when you use it?

Unions have contributed to both public political parties. They contribute to those that defend their interests. As the Koch Brothers do.

Try explaining that to the republican teacher that doesn't want to be part of or pay union dues. Does he/she have a choice to belong or not belong to the union? Do they have a choice to where the union donates their money to? Also, the teachers union in WI does not contribute to both parties. Check the facts please

Well they can move to another state. It's a "free" country, unless you're in Wisconsin.

Absolutely. They most certainly do.

When that teacher talks to an employer about a job offer, the employer tells you what the contract entails. You read your contract before you sign it. Every teacher has every right to take a job in the private sector, or a government job where joining the union is optional, if they do not want to pay union dues and be part of a union.

That is what capitalism and free-market principles are all about.

You want to attract the best teachers, you offer what those best teachers want. Or they go elsewhere.

Walker is actively trying to take those collective bargaining rights away.

Your teachers are going to go elsewhere. That's part of the plan, however, as the next goal is to bemoan the sorry state of the education system, and then privatize it, or begin using "education vouchers" (essentially a good way for the rich to have the general public pay for their kids private schools)

I meant unions in general, not specifically the teachers union in Wisconsin. My exact quote was, "Unions have contributed to both public parties".

But are you going to take the stand that the Wisconsin NEA branch of the American Federation of Teachers has never donated to a Republican candidate?

:D

Kinda like George Soros?