I had a friend just bail on me..if anyone is interested I have a seat for Fri/Sat Section P... also I have a Clubhouse pass for Sat.

Just PM me if interested.

All three are very live basically because they have a huge class edge over everyone except Curlin. Duke looks very live at this distance, but I think Raven's Pass will put in the best showing of the three. He gets Frankie Dettori and I like the fact that he is an Elusive Quality.

I'm thinking after this we can discuss the merits of Jelly Roll Rumble and his chances in the Dirt Marathon

I'm missing something here. What's wrong with the topic of this thread? Seems useful enough for me.

--Dunbar

It'd be useful if the author, and the contributors, had a CLUE. Last time Fischer gave out a winner, the Berlin Wall was still up. Yet, he insists on offering his opinion on just about everything.:rolleyes: Come on Bobby, let's put those PUERILE PACE FIGURES to use. Or that innovative show wagering system.

As for Quiet Chris: how did he escape my iggy bin? :zz:

And notice that when Fischer OPINES, DaHoss is not far behind.

Hoss,
I'm trying to find the head on replay of your post.....and I can't .......damn when is the technology going to catch up........crap it must be the jockey's fault.

good input on the race

Raven's Pass is one tough customer; he doesn't go under without a fight. His losses, apart from those at the straight track at Newmarket, are none of them over 1.5 lengths. He was very good early at 2, and was beaten only a head by champion 2yo and subsequent Derby winner New Approach in the Dewhurst S(G1), which is Britain's championship event for 2yos. He went a long stretch over the spring and summer without a win (behind Henry 3 times), but seemed to have taken heart from his G3 win in August to finally peg back Henry in the QEII and may be maturing later than that one. His half-brother Gigawatt certainly seems to have gone through a 'dead zone' at three after having been a SW at 2 before having his best years as an older horse; he was a dirt horse AND a turf horse.

The major knock against Raven's Pass is that he has never run at a distance beyond 8f. Sire Elusive Quality and half-bro Gigawatt were also milers, so one must wonder about his effectiveness at 10f. But his quality is quite high - they have a darned good group of 3yos in Europe this year - which can carry milers another couple furlongs beyond their optimum trip. And, oh yes, Raven's Pass has also won on a left-handed course.

I ride PELOTON daily.

fatman would be great to discuss racing with if he wasn't anti-social

honestly I AM CLUELESS about these 3 euros.
The synthetic track opens some possibilities to turf horses.
Not sure if Santa Anita Pro Ride might be a little more speed friendly than other synthetics, or how the Euros will transfer over.

I don't even have a strong feeling about which is the best of the 3??
Henrythenavigator is starting to get bet at ladbrokes and thegreek...


thegreek
curlin = 2.25/1
Henrythenavigator= 8.25/1
Ravens Pass =10.15/1
Duke of Marmalade = 10.15/1

ladbrokes
curlin = 3/1
Henrythenavigator= 5/1
Ravens Pass =8/1
Duke of Marmalade = 12/1

good info.

Oh my god.

Which statement do you disagree with?
a) superior milers can win going 10fs - Northern Dancer, Dr. Fager, Precisionist were all essentially milers but could win at longer races because of their quality.
b) the top 3yos in Britain/Ireland/Europe are a darned good group. Sophomores finished 1-2 in both the big wfa mile races in Britain this year; Derby winner New Approach was third in the York International (held at Newmarket because of flooding) after he came out of the gate throwing his head and fighting his jock the first quarter mile, then slaughtered his elders in the Irish Champion and yesterday's Champion S. And don't forget the 3yo filly Zarkava, who won the Arc.

Yea, European turf horses are pretty much expected to add distance in America...

not sure how unique Raven's Pass is in that regard being by Elusive Quality?

Duke of Marmalade - obviously a top 10F turf horse in Europe. . . Playing against because horses are often over the top after running in the Arc and then going to the BC.

Henrythenavigator - some say he may be on the decline off of his last two, but those were on softer turf - he had a slightly tougher trip than Raven's Pass in the QEII and obviously he still ran a pretty big race. His pedigree suggests he'll appreciate the stretch-out and he should take to the synthetic. He's my play if he stays near 8-1.

Raven's Pass - seems to be improving. Win last time over HTN was pretty nice, but he may have had a slight trip advantage and liked the soft turf more than HTN. His pedigree is somewhat of a question at the distance, but he's got a shot if Curlin doesn't take to the synthetic and he outruns or outrips HTN.

What's the problem hossy?

more good input on the race. your on a roll

Hoss, if the discussion bores you, move on.

Henry and Duke may be a bit "over the top" after long campaigns. Duke is a proven 10f horse that won 5 consecutive G1's this year before his drubbing in the Arc. Is he past his best or did the race not shape up right or were Zarkava, Youmzain (who he's handled easily) and Soldier of Fortune just better right no?. Honestly, Zarkava is a beast and Youmzain an opportunist. Soldier will likely go as the favorite in the BCTurf.
This year's 3yo's in Europe are quite good, topped by Zarkava but with New Approach and Goldikova high rated too. Duke may have been taking advantage of the fact that Soldier of Fortune took the summer off, meaning he could simply gallop about picking on Youmzain. (Like what Curlin has done here.)
As for the milers, Henry and Raven's Pass, I don't care for either. I've been waiting to see Raven come for the Mile and now they stretch and change surface, no good, IMO. I tend to think that high class Euro's can stretch out in the US, for 2 reasons. First, a decent Euro will usually beat and very good American in grass racing. Their horses and significantly better than ours. (Red Rocks, had he stayed sound could have dominated the US grass scene this year and he's no better than G3 over there.) Second, a horse with the built in fitness acquired from racing and traning on hilly courses will often carry his "best race" a bit farther when going onto a flat US turf course. If Raven went in the Mile it would be a showdown between Goldikova and Raven's Pass and would have been a great race. Now we get an Elusive Quality trying to stretch a 1/4 mile past his longest ever distance while switching to a surface he's never run on.
Henry was a monster at a straightaway mile in the Guineas, handling Raven and all others. Maybe his spring/early summer took a toll as he was easily handled by Goldikova in the Prix du Moulin, a key G1 race. Next out, Raven got the jump on Henry (who had made the 1st move and held of Raven in the earlier races between them) and beat him. Henry has done better with firmer turf and being by Kingmambo (himself a miler) I think he may have a better shot at 10f than Raven's Pass. Henry's dam is by Sadler's Wells so I wouldn't be shocked if 10f was within his range. (In fact it's not unusual in Europe for a top 3yo miler to train on to be a 10-12f horse at 4.) The question is his current condition and how he handles the Pro-Ride.
At anything but a HUGE price, I'd be less than thrilled with the Euros in the Classic.

am i crazy not to like any euorpean in any race ?

Have you looked at all of the PPs yet?

i have been looking for 2 days now.
why ?

Only the Giant's Causeways

.......the duke is the real deal and should hit the board.

i do not like any Causeway on BC day, not even Carriage Trail

Do you not like Goldikova in the Mile or any of the juvies? Soldier of Fortune? None at all?

NONE OF THEM....
WELL WAIT, maybe Pursuit of Glory a little, but thats reaLLy it.
In the mile i like War Monger,Daytona, and maybe Kip Deville

Solider of Fortune not at all..........
dancing forever, grand couturier and maybe red rocks

Yes.

Will my miss storm cat give us her EXPERT commentary on the Euros please? You always nail these.

Well, because it seems a bit odd to start tossing a bunch of horses and making selections before you even know for sure who is going to be in the race. For example, it is usually smart to try to determine what the pace of a race figures to be before you start making slections. Considering that we don't even know for sure who will be running in all of these races yet, you can't really have the foggiest clue what the pace scenario for a couple of these races.
That strikes me as somewhat important.

It doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out which 14 are going to get into these races so you have a pretty good idea of who is going to run at this point, especially since we know first and second preference for everyone. Sure there could be a few late injuries like Red Giant that changes things but that can happen between entries and the race anyways.

all top class american turf horses at one point, all have decent angles coming in and all will be good prices.
you are USELESS