It wasn't in 1970?

That years Horse of the Year, champion 2yo filly, champion 3yo male, champion 3yo filly, champion older mare, champion handicap horse, champion Grass horse and champion steeplechase horse all made at least one start at the four week long '70 Saratoga meet.

Only the champion 2yo male and the champion sprinter didn't. The champion 2yo male didn't debut until after Saratoga was finished - and while the champion sprinter didn't run there - she ran there both of the previous two years.

I don't see how you can say the meet wasn't that important. That's a lot of action for four weeks.

I believe that the "medication" or "drug" topic often becomes the scapegoat of the many ills. Not there is not a drug or medication problem, however it's not the exclusive problematic factor that some make it out to be.

One item that I think is often overlooked beyond the superficial discussions is the "breed" itself. Talk to an expert on breeding and pedigree -- someone like a Bob Fox. The gene pool has been diluted over the course of years, due to a variety of reasons. One could argue Tesio theories all day long, inbred this and outcross that, and so on. However, just by looking at the what has happened in the breeding industry, we can see what has happened to the breed.

There are exceptions to rules and rules that are exceptions, however, I think those that argue that the breed, genetically, has not suffered, are turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to certain realities.

Eric

Huh?

I did not say that good horses did not run there but Belmonts fall meet was considered much more important which is not the case anymore.

Well - that's because of the Breeders Cup I would think.

Still, Frankel had to have been a good trainer in 1970 to win a share of the training title there.

Who said that Frankel wasn't a good trainer?

I'm not posting under the moniker RAGS right now dude - I know you think he's a good trainer.


My point was - he was probably an outstanding trainer in 1970 as well - on the basis of the fact that he won a share of the Saratoga training title.


And that you might have left him out when you said....

Bruce Headley might be another guy - but neither was even close to being as accomplished as Jerkens was back during that time.

I don't know if you ever will. Thanks to Sightseek (and presumably Kiris Clown for posting it, I finally got to see the replay of the race that made me dance in the Belmont grandstand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSo-MRDbQ1k

Let's review, for a minute, who he beat in his last three races.
Woodward:
Saint Liam- HOTY, BCC winner, 5 time GSW (4 G1's)
Bowman's Band- G2 winner, 12 time GS placed
Newfoundland- multiple GSW/GSP
Seek Gold- G1 winner
Midway Road- multiple GSW, track recordholder at Keeneland 9F
Presidentialaffair- multiple GSW, track recordholder at Monmouth

BC Classic (maybe the best field ever assembled for the race):
Roses in May- multiple GSW, Dubai World Cup, etc.
Pleasantly Perfect- BCC winner, Dubai World Cup, 6 G1/G2 wins
Perfect Drift- 7x GSW, 22x GSP
Azeri- Champion female 3x, HOTY, 13x GSW (11 G1's)
Personal Rush- how did he finish 6th?!? but a champion in Japan
Birdstone- '03 Champagne, '04 Belmont, '04 Travers winner
Dynever- multiple G3 winner
Fantasticat- '04 Super Derby winner
Funny Cide- Derby, Preakness, '04 JCGC winner, et al. 5x GSW
Bowman's Band- see above
Newfoundland- see above
Freefourinternet- 4x G2 winner (believe it or not)

Met Mile:
Silver Wagon- 4x GSW, 2x G1 winner
Forest Danger- G1 winner
Pomeroy- 2x G1 winner, multiple GSW
Sir Shackelton- 3x GSW
Love of Money- G2 winner

Let's not get carried away, he beat 3 very nice horses and one great filly who wasn't quite in his league. Half the low level stakes horses around have beaten Seek Gold and Perfect Drift (and a lot of the other horses you've mentioned). I really don't think they add to his legacy. His legacy is his amazing speed figures, not who he beat and what they accomplished at various points in their careers.

I forgot Frankel mainly because he has been a West Coast trainer until recent years. I never considered Bruce Headly as a big trainer. And Polytrack may be the end of him.

They would have for sure. However, I doubt either would have done so as stylishly as GZ did.

:cool:

It funny that a guy who's supposedly had just one fatal breakdown on the racetrack in forty years is the guy having the toughest go of it with the synthetics out West.

All comes down to your preference. Cigar could have taken them on every four weeks for six months straight and beat them. Ghostzapper couldn't have done that but would have beat them more impressively than Cigar could when he could actually race. Not really fair to compare the two, both should just be appreciated for what they could do.

How can they breakdown if they never run? He makes Angel Penna look like a trotting horse trainer.

Thanks for putting up the link, i finally got to see it!! :eek:

but tesios main rule was breed the best to the best, and hope for the best. that's not the rule any longer--people are no longer trying to improve the breed, they're trying to improve their bottom line. THAT is the biggest problem facing the sport. it used to be that breeders raced their horses, to show they knew what they were doing. that they had taken a good thing, and made it better. not many of them left.