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Cannon Shell 12-15-2013 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 956995)
Clevland also playing better. Its actually going to come down to them and Detroit for the 3rd best team in the East. Not that it matters at all come playoff time.

Chicago is the third best team in the East.

RockHardTen1985 12-15-2013 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957276)
Chicago is the third best team in the East.

Chicago is totally irrelevant with zero upside. And you know this.

Cannon Shell 12-16-2013 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957277)
Chicago is totally irrelevant with zero upside. And you know this.

Upside is immaterial. Chicago is still the 3rd best team in the East.

cmorioles 12-16-2013 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957280)
Upside is immaterial. Chicago is still the 3rd best team in the East.

Speaking of Harden, the Thunder are better than ever without him. They turned Harden into Adams, Lamb, and a #1 to come. They also got a young guy Abrines they stashed in Europe, where they already have another very good player in Tibor Pleiss.

Add in that ditching Harden will allow them to keep Reggie Jackson, and this team is so deep going forward it is scary. I don't think most fans realize just how scary good Reggie is.

Perry Jones is the 11th guy right now and he'd get real minutes for a lot of teams. He's been great when he plays this year, and I don't mean in garbage time. Andre Roberson is 12th man and will replace Thabo. Dead weight Perkins being gone will open up some space too.

Presti is a genius, he really is.

cmorioles 12-16-2013 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 956710)
I agree on the CLippers. I think Golden St and Houston are both the big wild cards come playoff time. I dont believe in OKC. They get dumptrucked by Miami or Indiana if they somehow make it out of the west.

Miami, maybe, but they are getting older. Indiana, please. Thunder are their worst nightmare match up wise.

RockHardTen1985 12-16-2013 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957282)
Miami, maybe, but they are getting older. Indiana, please. Thunder are their worst nightmare match up wise.

Westbrook would have to go off, and maybe he would? George and Durant, pretty comparable....
I think whoever wins the East is the favorite over anyone out of the West.
So the NBA finals will be either Indiana or Miamia vs OKC or Houston or Golden St or San Antonio or the CLippers. See a problem here also? Much harder to come out of the West. Indiana and Miami will steamroll everyone until playing each other.

RockHardTen1985 12-16-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957280)
Upside is immaterial. Chicago is still the 3rd best team in the East.

Ok then. And what does 3rd best team in the East mean? Very evenly matched series in round 1 and they get blasted away in round 2.... Thats best case.

cmorioles 12-16-2013 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957339)
Westbrook would have to go off, and maybe he would? George and Durant, pretty comparable....
I think whoever wins the East is the favorite over anyone out of the West.
So the NBA finals will be either Indiana or Miamia vs OKC or Houston or Golden St or San Antonio or the CLippers. See a problem here also? Much harder to come out of the West. Indiana and Miami will steamroll everyone until playing each other.

George and Durant are comparable? Come on...George is really good, but there is a pretty big gap between the two of them. I can tell you this much, no way will Indiana be favored over the Thunder. Like I said before, it is a terrible match up for them, a nightmare.

Obviously the West is much tougher. It doesn't exactly take Nostradamus to figure that out. But if you get through it will all be pretty irrelevant. Further about the West, I see no way in hell GS or LAC makes it out, and Hou is only slightly more likely. Portland is better than all of them.

NTamm1215 12-16-2013 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957357)
George and Durant are comparable? Come on...George is really good, but there is a pretty big gap between the two of them. I can tell you this much, no way will Indiana be favored over the Thunder. Like I said before, it is a terrible match up for them, a nightmare.

Obviously the West is much tougher. It doesn't exactly take Nostradamus to figure that out. But if you get through it will all be pretty irrelevant. Further about the West, I see no way in hell GS or LAC makes it out, and Hou is only slightly more likely. Portland is better than all of them.

The Rockets are a bad matchup for Portland. They've split so far this year and Sampson made a big mistake having Terrence Jones continue to guard Aldridge last Thursday when they played in Portland. He was significantly less effective with Howard guarding him.

I don't think Portland has a great deal of long-term viability. I've also been very surprised at home poorly the Warriors are playing so far.

cmorioles 12-16-2013 09:09 PM

Yeah, I just think the Rockets need something else. If they can find someone dumb enough to take Asik and get something worthwhile in return, that could move them up.

I think Portland will continue to surprise. The coach is very good, and they are much deeper than last year. But yeah, it can be about match ups. Portland pretty much let Howard have whatever he could get and shut down the 3 point guys. This is where Howard is lacking. If a guy like Shaq was guarded like Howard was, he would have scored 50.

cmorioles 12-16-2013 09:14 PM

...my only point about the Thunder, and obviously I'm a homer, is a lot of people seem to think this is the same team as the one from the finals, or one that took a step back without Harden. That is simply not the case. They are clearly better this year. Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka are all better players than they were, and the bench is very deep, much better than when Harden was here.

Jackson alone isn't that far off of Harden's numbers. He is a magician in the paint. If Westbrook could finish like Jackson does he'd be hands down the top PG in the NBA.

RockHardTen1985 12-16-2013 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957357)
George and Durant are comparable? Come on...George is really good, but there is a pretty big gap between the two of them. I can tell you this much, no way will Indiana be favored over the Thunder. Like I said before, it is a terrible match up for them, a nightmare.

Obviously the West is much tougher. It doesn't exactly take Nostradamus to figure that out. But if you get through it will all be pretty irrelevant. Further about the West, I see no way in hell GS or LAC makes it out, and Hou is only slightly more likely. Portland is better than all of them.

I prefer GS, Portland and Houston over LAC. Im not sold on LAC at all. I think Houston will be fine. And when the playoffs come around Im not sold on Portland being a real contender. GS has been a huge disapointment in my eyes. I had them as a top 2-3 team. Hopefully the get it going, they sure are fun to watch.
I dont think George is that far behind Durant and he is 2yrs younger. He took a huge step forward this year.
Durant is the better scorer right now, but if George is hungry and keeps getting better he will be as good by the time he is 25. George would be a rebounding machine if not for Hibbert and West. Durant is the 2nd best rebounder on his team, so the rebounding difference means nothing to me..... George plays better D.

RockHardTen1985 12-16-2013 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957360)
Yeah, I just think the Rockets need something else. If they can find someone dumb enough to take Asik and get something worthwhile in return, that could move them up.

I think Portland will continue to surprise. The coach is very good, and they are much deeper than last year. But yeah, it can be about match ups. Portland pretty much let Howard have whatever he could get and shut down the 3 point guys. This is where Howard is lacking. If a guy like Shaq was guarded like Howard was, he would have scored 50.

I have read Varejo from Clevland is likely.

cmorioles 12-16-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957363)
I prefer GS, Portland and Houston over LAC. Im not sold on LAC at all. I think Houston will be fine. And when the playoffs come around Im not sold on Portland being a real contender. GS has been a huge disapointment in my eyes. I had them as a top 2-3 team. Hopefully the get it going, they sure are fun to watch.
I dont think George is that far behind Durant and he is 2yrs younger. He took a huge step forward this year.
Durant is the better scorer right now, but if George is hungry and keeps getting better he will be as good by the time he is 25. George would be a rebounding machine if not for Hibbert and West. Durant is the 2nd best rebounder on his team, so the rebounding difference means nothing to me..... George plays better D.

Durant is a good defender, very underrated. Ask any GM who they want for the next 7 or 8 years if they can have either, and every one will pick Durant.

I'm not knocking George, he is a great player. Durant is on another level, just like Lebron is on another level from everyone else.

Duvalier 12-16-2013 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 957359)
I don't think Portland has a great deal of long-term viability.

Why is that?

RockHardTen1985 12-16-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957366)
Durant is a good defender, very underrated. Ask any GM who they want for the next 7 or 8 years if they can have either, and every one will pick Durant.

I'm not knocking George, he is a great player. Durant is on another level, just like Lebron is on another level from everyone else.

Ok. I just dont see it. Durants your boy, hes your guy. I get the love. I guess Ill even give you that he is better, but its not that wide a gap. Thats how I feel. It was a huge gap last year, its not nearly as big now. And it 2yrs the gap might be totally gone. I think George is that kind of player.

Duvalier 12-16-2013 09:54 PM

Wow Joe Johnson was unconscious tonight in the 3rd quarter... eight 3-pointers and 29 points. Finished with 10 3's and 37 points on the night.

The Association may may need to start looking into some sort of mercy rule for the Sixers after the last few games.

Cannon Shell 12-16-2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957343)
Ok then. And what does 3rd best team in the East mean? Very evenly matched series in round 1 and they get blasted away in round 2.... Thats best case.

3rd best team in East doesnt mean that much

Cannon Shell 12-16-2013 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 957359)
The Rockets are a bad matchup for Portland. They've split so far this year and Sampson made a big mistake having Terrence Jones continue to guard Aldridge last Thursday when they played in Portland. He was significantly less effective with Howard guarding him.

I don't think Portland has a great deal of long-term viability. I've also been very surprised at home poorly the Warriors are playing so far.

The Warriors have a lot of issues that people chose to ignore for whatever reason.
Portland is a good team that's playing well but has no real depth. They are a jump shooting team and later in the season when teams are tired they are more apt to struggle at times.
The Rockets have defensive issues.

Cannon Shell 12-16-2013 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957360)
Yeah, I just think the Rockets need something else. If they can find someone dumb enough to take Asik and get something worthwhile in return, that could move them up.

I think Portland will continue to surprise. The coach is very good, and they are much deeper than last year. But yeah, it can be about match ups. Portland pretty much let Howard have whatever he could get and shut down the 3 point guys. This is where Howard is lacking. If a guy like Shaq was guarded like Howard was, he would have scored 50.

Asik could be a great pickup for the right team like Dallas or Golden State. Problem is NBA trades are hard to make and Houston supposedly wants a lot and his contract has a balloon payment of $15 million next year. There was a rumor that the Sixers were interested in trading Thaddeus Young for Asik and the money works but who knows?

Cannon Shell 12-16-2013 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957362)
...my only point about the Thunder, and obviously I'm a homer, is a lot of people seem to think this is the same team as the one from the finals, or one that took a step back without Harden. That is simply not the case. They are clearly better this year. Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka are all better players than they were, and the bench is very deep, much better than when Harden was here.

Jackson alone isn't that far off of Harden's numbers. He is a magician in the paint. If Westbrook could finish like Jackson does he'd be hands down the top PG in the NBA.

OKC is very good. Who knows how good they'd be if Brooks stopped playing Perkins and Fisher? Reggie Jackson holds the NBA summer league record for points in a game lol. Adams has been far better than I thought he'd be and has a lot of room to improve.

Truth is that Asik would be a great pickup for OKC though I don't see Houston making that happen.

Cannon Shell 12-16-2013 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957363)
I prefer GS, Portland and Houston over LAC. Im not sold on LAC at all. I think Houston will be fine. And when the playoffs come around Im not sold on Portland being a real contender. GS has been a huge disapointment in my eyes. I had them as a top 2-3 team. Hopefully the get it going, they sure are fun to watch.
I dont think George is that far behind Durant and he is 2yrs younger. He took a huge step forward this year.
Durant is the better scorer right now, but if George is hungry and keeps getting better he will be as good by the time he is 25. George would be a rebounding machine if not for Hibbert and West. Durant is the 2nd best rebounder on his team, so the rebounding difference means nothing to me..... George plays better D.

You realize that Golden State isnt a cinch to even make the playoffs right?

Kevin Durant is better than George who is just starting to get near the level KD has been at for a few years. George will never be as good offensively as Durant as he has made dramatic improvements and yet still is a step below Durant who is also getting better.

Cannon Shell 12-16-2013 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvalier (Post 957369)
Wow Joe Johnson was unconscious tonight in the 3rd quarter... eight 3-pointers and 29 points. Finished with 10 3's and 37 points on the night.

The Association may may need to start looking into some sort of mercy rule for the Sixers after the last few games.

They have been the kind of embarrassing lately that I envisioned them being the entire season. Their last 3 wins have been OT games so more or less they are 3 points away from having a 20 game losing streak. The last non-OT win was Nov 8.

At least we know the Sixers have a plan for all the losing. After tonights Knicks game I'm pretty sure that Woodson has to go as he appears to have completely lost the team. Now we are hearing rumors about trades for Pau Gasol. Guy looks completely shot.

RockHardTen1985 12-17-2013 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957376)
They have been the kind of embarrassing lately that I envisioned them being the entire season. Their last 3 wins have been OT games so more or less they are 3 points away from having a 20 game losing streak. The last non-OT win was Nov 8.

At least we know the Sixers have a plan for all the losing. After tonights Knicks game I'm pretty sure that Woodson has to go as he appears to have completely lost the team. Now we are hearing rumors about trades for Pau Gasol. Guy looks completely shot.

Its Gasol for Chandler, but LA would have to take JR Smith.....
There were Shumpert rumors, but I have not read much about that and heard nothing about it on First Take when they discussed Gasol for Chandler.

RockHardTen1985 12-17-2013 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957375)
You realize that Golden State isnt a cinch to even make the playoffs right?

Kevin Durant is better than George who is just starting to get near the level KD has been at for a few years. George will never be as good offensively as Durant as he has made dramatic improvements and yet still is a step below Durant who is also getting better.

Right now they are 1.5 games out of a playoff spot. 3 teams ahead of them are not much team IMO.... Dallas, Denver and Phoenix. GS feels like a team that will go on a 15-5 20 game stretch at some point and be right in the playoff mix. With all that said, they are a disapointment, I thought they would be much better.

cmorioles 12-17-2013 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957373)
Asik could be a great pickup for the right team like Dallas or Golden State. Problem is NBA trades are hard to make and Houston supposedly wants a lot and his contract has a balloon payment of $15 million next year. There was a rumor that the Sixers were interested in trading Thaddeus Young for Asik and the money works but who knows?

Yeah, the problem with Asik is the contract. It doesn't all count against the cap, but it is still a lot of money to pay for what he brings.

Dallas isn't going anywhere. They are a solid team, nothing more. What could they give Houston that Houston would even want?

Golden State already has a version of Asik in Bogut really, though Bogut is better if healthy. I'm just not sure they would give up much to get him. I don't think anyone will.

cmorioles 12-17-2013 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957374)
OKC is very good. Who knows how good they'd be if Brooks stopped playing Perkins and Fisher? Reggie Jackson holds the NBA summer league record for points in a game lol. Adams has been far better than I thought he'd be and has a lot of room to improve.

Truth is that Asik would be a great pickup for OKC though I don't see Houston making that happen.

Asik would only be a great pickup IMO if Houston took Perkins...and who would do that? I don't care much about Perkins playing his 15 minutes a game. It doesn't matter if he starts, his minutes are shrinking and will continue to do so. He is just a backup to be honest, and still has some value against guys like Hibbert and Howard and Duncan.

Fisher is another story. Why Brooks plays him over Perry Jones is beyond me. And even if he doesn't want to play Jones, give the minutes to Lamb/Jackson. I think he will more and more as the season goes on.

Cannon Shell 12-17-2013 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957378)
Its Gasol for Chandler, but LA would have to take JR Smith.....
There were Shumpert rumors, but I have not read much about that and heard nothing about it on First Take when they discussed Gasol for Chandler.

The only possible reason for making that deal is to just shed contracts. Of course that would entail cutting ties with Gasol after this year. The question I would have is who exactly are you going to use that cap space on?

First take wouldnt be my go to source for information outside of Tebow news

Cannon Shell 12-17-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957379)
Right now they are 1.5 games out of a playoff spot. 3 teams ahead of them are not much team IMO.... Dallas, Denver and Phoenix. GS feels like a team that will go on a 15-5 20 game stretch at some point and be right in the playoff mix. With all that said, they are a disapointment, I thought they would be much better.

You ignored their obvious issues but so did a lot of other people. IF they can get healthy they will be a tough out in a playoff series but they arent a title factor

Cannon Shell 12-17-2013 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957386)
Yeah, the problem with Asik is the contract. It doesn't all count against the cap, but it is still a lot of money to pay for what he brings.

Dallas isn't going anywhere. They are a solid team, nothing more. What could they give Houston that Houston would even want?

Golden State already has a version of Asik in Bogut really, though Bogut is better if healthy. I'm just not sure they would give up much to get him. I don't think anyone will.

I dont know what houston really wants for him but the way they handled this situation by setting a deadline to trade him on Thursday seems odd. Golden State needs front court help. Asik can split minutes with Bogut and Lee which helps keep Bogut in the lineup and improve their defense a lot. He would be a good fit in Dallas and they do have draft picks plus Cuban wont tank. IMO Dallas with Asik probably makes the playoffs. Probably not going too far but still.

The ultimate wildcard would be the Nets where money isnt an issue though I have no idea if the rules allow them to add him considering where their salary situation is now.

Cannon Shell 12-17-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 957387)
Asik would only be a great pickup IMO if Houston took Perkins...and who would do that? I don't care much about Perkins playing his 15 minutes a game. It doesn't matter if he starts, his minutes are shrinking and will continue to do so. He is just a backup to be honest, and still has some value against guys like Hibbert and Howard and Duncan.

Fisher is another story. Why Brooks plays him over Perry Jones is beyond me. And even if he doesn't want to play Jones, give the minutes to Lamb/Jackson. I think he will more and more as the season goes on.

Fischer is totally shot. I've railed against him for three years but the 2011-12 version of him is like Kobe compared to now. He is shooting 20% from the field. I get the veteran leadership stuff but do like Miami did with Juwon Howard. Hand him a towel and lead from the bench.

cmorioles 12-17-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957420)
Fischer is totally shot. I've railed against him for three years but the 2011-12 version of him is like Kobe compared to now. He is shooting 20% from the field. I get the veteran leadership stuff but do like Miami did with Juwon Howard. Hand him a towel and lead from the bench.

No argument from me there. The scary thing is Fisher played great defense a few times in key stretches early in the year, and I think he is trying to show the young players that is what he wants.

RockHardTen1985 12-17-2013 07:04 PM

Clevland playing a big half so far at home vs Portland. I would like to see them win this game and go to 8-4 at home. Any team with the talent they have, that can also defend home court can be dangerous come playoff time if they stay healthy. With that said they will get blasted by Indiana or Miami.

RockHardTen1985 12-17-2013 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 957419)
I dont know what houston really wants for him but the way they handled this situation by setting a deadline to trade him on Thursday seems odd. Golden State needs front court help. Asik can split minutes with Bogut and Lee which helps keep Bogut in the lineup and improve their defense a lot. He would be a good fit in Dallas and they do have draft picks plus Cuban wont tank. IMO Dallas with Asik probably makes the playoffs. Probably not going too far but still.

The ultimate wildcard would be the Nets where money isnt an issue though I have no idea if the rules allow them to add him considering where their salary situation is now.

Asik is likely going to Philly.....

RockHardTen1985 12-17-2013 07:07 PM

WOW... Rondo to Kings???
 
Hearing Rondo to Kings for Mclemore, Fredette, Thompson and Thomas....Just heard it on ESPN radio on my way to work.

RockHardTen1985 12-17-2013 07:08 PM

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-rum...0584--nba.html

This article has different players listed then what I heard on ESPN radio....

Duvalier 12-17-2013 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957477)
Clevland playing a big half so far at home vs Portland. I would like to see them win this game and go to 8-4 at home. Any team with the talent they have, that can also defend home court can be dangerous come playoff time if they stay healthy. With that said they will get blasted by Indiana or Miami.

Things will be different going forward for the Blazers. They'll be getting team's best shot on a lot of nights...they're no longer just another non playoff team from the Western Conference...or just another game.

By getting the national media attention and being ranked #1 in some media based polls at this point in the season, there won't be many easy games...but those are the games you need to keep winning to be legit. Teams like Miami, Indiana, San Antonio and Oklahoma City have already solidified their status as true contenders.

Duvalier 12-17-2013 08:24 PM

Lillard


RockHardTen1985 12-17-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvalier (Post 957491)
Things will be different going forward for the Blazers. They'll be getting team's best shot on a lot of nights...they're no longer just another non playoff team from the Western Conference...or just another game.

By getting the national media attention and being ranked #1 in some media based polls at this point in the season, there won't be many easy games...but those are the games you need to keep winning to be legit. Teams like Miami, Indiana, San Antonio and Oklahoma City have already solidified their status as true contenders.

They pulled that out tonight against a team thats OK at home. Nice win.

Duvalier 12-17-2013 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 957496)
They pulled that out tonight against a team thats OK at home. Nice win.

Tomorrow will be tough...at Minnesota. This will be their 8th back to back already this season, and their second on this current road trip in the last 5 days.


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