You never cease to amaze me you bash walker and the republicans but won't listen to the idiots that you are supporting.


Can you explain to me how as a citizen of the US you are ok with the action taken by the senate democrats? I am not asking whether you agree or disagree with the bill. I am asking if you believe that their actions are in accordance to the civic duty that they swore to uphold

Yes, you are an employer. If you want good people, to hire or to stay, you'll have to treat them better than any other possible employer. "Giving power back"??? What are you talking about? "You've" had collective bargaining rights forever. It's silly to "blame unions", when every single contract they have. every penny that is spent, was bargained and signed off upon by the State. Collective bargaining hasn't ruined your state budget.

You are one nutty lady! Did you bother to read Bill Adairs reply to Maddows producer! Talking about comportment...I've never "GFY" to you on any subject.

The Governor tried to sneak through alot of nasty stuff in his bill. I'm darn glad the Democrats held up the rushed-through passage of this bill, because much of the content has turned out to have zero to do with solving any budget deficit. Yes, I think that is indeed their civic duty, to protect their constituency.

How can you support Walker? His lying, his deceit? Tell me how taking away 8% of income from low and middle class public workers is a good thing for the overburdened, overtaxed citizens of Wisconsin? While companies get more and more tax breaks?

As I said, your Governor has promised that 250,000 jobs will magically appear out of nowhere in Wisconsin in the next couple of years. If he can do that, I'll be happy to vote for him for President.

That's funny. When you look at the photos today, most of that stuff is already gone.

Did you bother to read where Politifact expanded upon, and walked back, their rating, narrowing it to just the presentation? Not the "facts".

State backs off claim of millions in damage
 

Whoops .... it was all sort of a ... guesstimate to impress a judge ...

sorry if this was already posted
 

democrats against democracy unite



Far Left protester Patrick J. Knauf, 43, of Eau Claire was arrested on Wednesday for the violation of making a bomb scare under state statute 947.015.

He was released on a $3,000 signature bond.

On Wednesday a bomb threat was made at an aviation business in Eau Claire just hours after Governor Scott Walker spoke there. Police brought in a man who was protesting this week against the Republican governor.
The Pierce County Herald reported:

An investigation continues into a bomb threat made this week at an aviation business in Eau Claire, just hours after Governor Scott Walker held a news conference there.

Authorities said a 43-year-old Eau Claire man allegedly called in a threat to Heartland Aviation on Wednesday evening. The facility is next to the Chippewa Valley Regional Airport in Eau Claire. The man is free on a signature bond. No charges have been filed yet, but the man is due back in Chippewa County Circuit Court on April 19th.

Investigators said the man took part in public demonstrations at the airport on Monday and Wednesday. His home was searched yesterday, and police are checking phone records and interviewing people. Eau Claire Police have asked for tips with more information.

Amazing!
A bomb threat was called in on a Walker rally and the media doesn’t report on it?
Unbelievable.

Analyzing Walker's Union-Busting, Governor Takeover Bill
 

"As a state economist and policy analyst, I was surprised that no one asked me about this proposal. I analyzed it for its economic impact. If public employee salaries are cut (through increased withholdings as proposed) by enough to fill the $137 million budget gap, the resulting drop in consumer spending will lead to:

1) a loss of over 1,200 nongovernment jobs;
2) a loss of about $100 million in business sales statewide;
3) a loss of nearly $35 million in personal incomes of nongovernment employee households;
4) ironically, a loss of nearly $10 million in state tax revenues."

-- Robert Russell, economist and analyst, Madison.
Wisconsin Public Radio interview

There was no bomb threat to a Walker rally. Read your own story :-) Looks like the loser threatened a business that hosted Walker, after it closed. I also heard Walker was asked to leave a local restaurant this week, the patrons were all booing, but couldn't confirm it.

The Koch Brothers are paying for a bus to go town to town to support Walker this weekend. I guess 40-50 people is all they could find?

At least it was one more bus than Jesse Jax could find.

I heard that people were asking zer0 to leave and were booing him but I can't confirm it

4) ironically, a loss of nearly $10 million in state tax revenues."

Wrong! When you add in the $137 million saved by having public workers contribute to their own health and pension plans you have a net revenue gain of $127 million for the State. :D Divide 137 mil by 39,000 (number of State workers) you come to just over $3,500 per employee.

Wish private citizens were offered such a deal!

BTW I'd like to see some Madison professor explain how graduation rates for high school have been steadily rising while ACT scores have been steadily going down? New Math or are teachers 'cheating' students?

http://factcheck.org/2011/03/wiscons...budget-battle/

Analysis
Newly elected Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, a Republican, introduced a state budget repair bill on Feb. 11 that has attracted national attention because it seeks major changes to the state’s collective bargaining laws. The bill, which is needed to close a $137 million budget gap in the current fiscal year, would allow most state workers to keep their bargaining rights on salaries — but end collective bargaining on all other issues, including health care costs, pensions and workplace conditions. The AFL-CIO and other unions see this as an attack on unions, while the governor sees it as a necessary way to control future labor costs and avoid another budget crisis.The budget repair bill has led to a showdown between the Republican governor and Democratic state lawmakers — some of whom fled the Capitol in an attempt to prevent a vote on the bill. It has also caused some confusion among people trying to follow the budget crisis.




Wisconsin is facing a potential $3.6 billion shortfall for its next biennium, or two-year budget cycle, according to figures released by the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau in January. The budget period begins on July 1, 2011, and ends on June 30, 2013. That figure is more than $2 billion less than the $5.9 billion projected deficit that former Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle had to tackle at the beginning of the 2009-2011 fiscal cycle. So, that was not quite "double" the deficit that Walker is potentially looking at, as our reader was told.

Doyle was able to erase a large portion of his projected gap through a series of spending cuts and tax increases. But funds from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act — known as the stimulus act — also played a significant part in easing the state’s budget woes. More than $2 billion in stimulus funds were used to narrow the budget gap for the 2009-2011 cycle. That’s money the state will have to do without this time around, since those funds run out at the end of June, according to Robert Lang, the fiscal bureau director

:tro:

Just to be fair shouldn't there be an outcry by the left of " MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow LIES !!" ?

I want to hear what Rachel Maddow's neck mole has to say before I pass judgment.

[quote=Riot;758132]The Governor tried to sneak through alot of nasty stuff in his bill. I'm darn glad the Democrats held up the rushed-through passage of this bill, because much of the content has turned out to have zero to do with solving any budget deficit. Yes, I think that is indeed their civic duty, to protect their constituency.

QUOTE]

This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs. Whether you agree or disagree with the bill acting the way the democrats have done is just down right wrong. If the republicans give in it sets a really bad precedent. It is like when I tell my 3 yr old she can't have candy and then she throws a temper tantrum and I give in. Do you think she will do it again? We can not have law makers acting in this behavior any time a bill is presented that they do not agree with. That is what elections are for. Time to get back to work and do your job.

Why don't you look into a program that is called Teacher Ameritas that exists in numerous school districts in WI. I know it exists in Green Bay. Just so you know with this program retired teachers can receive 1/3rd of their annual salary as long as they work a total of 10 days. That is correct 10 days of work for 1/3rd of your pay. So if you are a teacher making $90k you get $30k for 10 days of work. $3k a day isn't too bad. Great use of tax payer money. Also explain to me how we need to pay someone over $100k plus $30k in annual benefits to teach gym to middle school kids? But forgive me collective bargaining by teachers union who fund the democrats has nothing to do with budget problems. Wake up

Can you talk about politics objectively?

I say what they did was right. They used a legal parlimentary procedure to block the ramming through of a "deficit repair" bill (even though the Wisconsin deficit isn't deep enough to formally trigger the need for a "repair bill") that contains far, far more than just deficit corrections.

Guess we'll just disagree.

I missed your daily anger and self-rightous indignation over the past two years of Senate Republicans filibustering just about everything :D

Please point out, in your state budget over the past five years, where public employee pensions and health benefits have "broken" your state budget. How these are the greatest deficit causers.

I'd like to know what actual percentages of your state budget these items have been.

And of course, you've been politically active and furious about this over the past many years, demonstrating against it, I assume? You've been angry and vocally against your state government people, the ones that do the collective bargaining, that have given these perks away?

I'm tired of this new fad of demonizing teachers, just so the GOP can break the unions to try and break Democratic votes and contributions. It's absurd kabuki theatre. Get angry about your state revenue being constantly decreased, over the past 20 years by tax giveaways to corporations. A tax giveaway was about the first thing your new GOP governor did, too. And no anger from you over that.

But she apparently didn't. Even PolitiFact said that when discussing what was being talked about when confronted by the Maddow show. LOL - even Scott Walker has been using that number.

Fact check on your fact check. Twitter can sometimes be wrong!

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...ve-budget-sur/

response from the Milwaukee Sentinel Journal back to Maddow after asking for a retraction

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepo...116936958.html

did you seriously just ask that question??? riot, you have unabashedly and unashamedly admitted your love for the democratic party; that you think they're the cure for what ails us as a country...you back their play on any and every issue that comes down the pike --and then you post that.

Not on Twitter, thanks. I posted the original Wisconsin budget document, (the one where Walker gains and uses the same number) which is apparently too complex for folks to read themselves. I also posted the detailed Politifact answer to Maddow saying essentially, "well, it wasn't the number you used, it was the context"

Absolutely. When Wiphan and I are talking about what the Dems are doing in Wisconsin, and whether we agree or not with their actions, what place does Wiphan interjecting the personally prejudiced and assumptive, "This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs" have in that?

That just proves Wiphan has preconceived prejudices that run deep. Wiphan doesn't have frigging clue what supporting the Democrats "means about me and my beliefs". Sadly. What it means is only that I support the Democratic action, for the reason I gave. Nothing more or less.

One is talking about the other poster. One is talking about the subject.

Then you go on with the following, which has nothing at all to do with the above, really, and thus is confusing to me why you said it:

At least you could be accurate. No, I have not posted my "love" of the Democratic party, I have posted my complete and utter disappointment with the failures of the Republican party. Not the same thing. There is alot I am not comfortable with within the most progressive wing of the Democratic part (and I've said as much here, which appears to be completely ignored) - why I never voted for a Democrat on a national level before Obama.

it tells me he knows you have a bias. and if you're uncomfortable with some of their actions, yours posts don't show it. if anyone wishes to know the stance of the dems on a subject, they need look no further than your posts. you aren't objective at all. and you may be a recent 'convert' to the cause, but it's still your cause.

So you consider filibustering the same as the actions the Senate Democrats in WI have taken? Fleeing the state, not showing up for your job, and not representing your constituents is the same as a filibuster? So every time a party disagrees with another they should just flee to Canada or in this case IL until the other party gives in? They should hold the state or the country hostage and not allow business to be conducted until they get their way. I do not see how that is considered democracy, but what do I know I didn't consult twitter or wikipedia

Do you not think public unions have any effect on the budget issues in the state now and in the future (i.e. future pension pay outs, ridiculous union bargained benefits, monopolized health insurance, etc.) ? Let's take a look at the auto industry in the US. Do you think the unions had any effect on the stability, sustainability and profitability of the US auto companies?

[quote]:zz: Yes: I am speaking in favor of the Democratic side, and Wiphan is speaking in favor of the Republican side.

Neither of which has anything to do with explaining why Wiphan feels the need to interject the personal perjorative, "This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs"

It's nice that you are trying to argue in support of Wiphans' assumptive prejudices, but what I said was that going there is uncalled for.

Why do people here always have to interject and make it personal about the other posters, when the discussion is about the pluses or minuses and actions of the politicans?

I consider both legal parlimentary procedures that were chosen and used.

I didn't like when the GOP did it in the Senate, and you don't like it when the state senate Democrats are doing it here.

They most certainly didn't "flee their job", or "not represent their constituents", they are talking to constituents and staff daily, they are quite available to the other Senate members and the Governor (who still refuses to take their calls)

BTW, who is not "doing their job", when the public overwhelmingly is telling Walker they don't want union-busting, the Dems are trying to negotiate, a couple of the Senate Republicans are trying to negotiate, and Walker is standing still refusing to meet, refusing to take phone calls, saying he refuses to change his stance, and he is even caught on that phone call, saying he lied to the Democrats, saying he'd trick them into thinking he'd negotiate to get them back but then wouldn't?

Okay, you have to keep it personal. You can't talk about the politics objectively. So, yes, poor little unknowledgable victim you, poor little unknowledgable victim you. Is that what you want to hear? What does that have to do with anything? You don't consider what the Dems are doing democracy, stand by your opinion. Don't try to pawn it off on me being mean to poor little victim you.

Yes, I do. However, I think that is a very small percentage of the budget. Too small to blame the unions for massive budget problems, and as a real reason for the union-busting. So what is that percentage?

Where is the financial proof that Walker's union-busting is based upon real financial numbers? He hasn't shown any yet.

What we "think" doesn't really matter. It's not a matter of opinion. What "is", does matter. This should be readily and easily proven by black and white numbers. Where are they?

Either have any of the other Republican governors, who were told by the Koch Brothers, owners of the Republican Governors Association and huge donators to getting these GOP Governors elected, that they must bust the unions before the 2012 election, in order to try and bust Democratic donors and votes. The other governors have done a complete 180 on their plans after the Walker fiasco regarding their union busting (see Indiana and New Jersey)

Yes, I do. The auto industries bargained terrific benefits, then they made bad cars and terrible business decisions, so they could no longer afford to pay for what they promised the unions.

But the UAW union isn't the Wisconsin teachers, librarian, prison, fire and police unions.

So when we talk about Wisconsin, lets talk about the situation there, not somewhere else where the only thing in common is the word "union".

The UAW ended up owning the auto companies with a little help from Obama to sidestep legal bankruptsy proceedings.

They bargained benefits that played a role in bankrupting the auto cos. They should have been allowed to go down. The UAW bit off the hand that feeds, but Obama was right there to save them with our $$. Screwing stock and bond holders. There is a huge difference between public and private sector unions. At least until the private sector unions need taxpayer $$ to survive.

Can the taxpayers get a list of those who were paid for in previous years?


The Milwaukee teachers union has dropped a lawsuit seeking to get its taxpayer-funded Viagra back.

The union sued in July 2010 to force the school board to again include the erectile dysfunction drug and similar pills in its health insurance plans.

The union has argued the board’s policy of excluding such drugs from the plans discriminates against male employees; the board has countered the 2005 move was meant to save money.

Really!!!!!!!!

http://www.gazettextra.com/weblogs/l...p-viagra-suit/

Didn't GM make a billion dollar profit this year? The US has sold off most of it's GM's shares, so we've gotten most of our money back. GM has far less debt, still has money to pay for all those retirees' pensions it's carrying (a terrible thing if those were gone forever), and still has all those jobs in development, manufacturing, etc. It's leaner, meaner, and should be around. I disagree it should have been allowed to go bankrupt and disappear, with all those pensions and jobs with it.

the jobs went first , then they stole the pensions. And GM was crowing about paying their debt while they were warning about the 16bil shortfall in pensiions out of the other side of their mouths. It was and is criminal!

[quote=Riot;759120]i didn't say it was uncalled for. i found your remark ironic, and posted as such. it was nothing personal, the only thing personal is that you posted it, and i asked if you really meant it. had wiphan typed it to you, i'd have asked him instead.
i don't recall backing up anyone's assertions in this thread. i have said the whole thing is a mess and a shame, and i meant that. that state isn't being helped by the actions of both the exec and ledge. the govt is no dictator, he has no business acting like one. the unions have, imo, blown this out of proportion. there are things that need cutting; wisconsin would be best served if it's 'leaders' all sat down and hashed all this out.
meanwhile, it seems to be all about who is winning the media war.

you see them as doing their job, while I see the democrats acting in childish/terrorist behavior. Totally difference of opinion, which I think would set a dangerous precedent if they suceed. I do not see how this is democracy. If the tables were turned the republicans would be burned at the stake in media, whereas the democrats are seen as standing up for the people. Elections are won by majority opinion and the legislature should represent the majority. You will quote bias media polls, but the truth is WI voters voted for Walker and the republicans to take over. You have to let them do their job. I am just pointing out where your so called facts usually come from. You use the liberal media, papers, etc to showcase your facts, when I gave you a summary part of the bill on the public utilities you dismissed it. see http://legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdf look at the summary and your past posts. Read the bill and stop reading Wikipedia, huffington, MSNBC, etc.