Nothing could of helped this thread.

its not about being obvious before the race or that anyone posted it or bet on it. forget about any of that. lets say nobody saw it and we are merely trying to understand what happened. I don't know about you but whenever I'm engaged in a race that I have studied and the outcome is a total surprise I study it after the fact to try to learn. I figure if I can figure out what I missed it only makes me better down the road.

I wouldn't disparage any of Brass Hats races, as in his Whitney finish. Its a miracle he is racing at that level after I think two surgeries. The fact is he set a track record at Churchill and I doubt that it was the lone day in 37 years that Churchill has had a souped up track, and good luck in your race analysis if you ignore the racing path on the turn. I didn' say anything about a horrible trip, i simply stated the fact that he was 2 wide on the turns.

You said you're not a Lava Man guy, and also said that you think the older west coast division is weak, but I still haven't heard you say who was the more obvious horse than Student Council, that should have won the race? I have asked several times. Can you build a solid case for anyone? I have backed up my case for Student Council with speed figures and prior race review. You disagree with me so lets hear your case for any of the other horses.

I can buy that Student Council might have been able to beat Lava Man on dirt. No way though that I can believe five horses including Big Booster would have beat him had the race been on dirt. No way he is worse than third and he is likely the winner if it wasn't poly.

I've barely been able to find enough time in the day to cap Saratoga. Any additional time goes to the Ellis Park Pick Four long before the polycrap.

But I can guarantee I would have found time to fully cap and bet the race if it was still on dirt.

And my whole point this whole time is that races can get "a bit tainted" for any number of reasons, and you're raising hell over the surface. Races can get "a bit tainted" because of pace meltdowns, souped up tracks, a horse breaking down, weak fields, etc, the list goes on in perpetuity.

You're just making it sound like poly is the one single factor that allowed Student Council to stumble down the lane past, the way you're talking about it, a whole group of world-beaters in a million dollar Grade I. This race was plenty tainted once that ridiculous group passed the entry box.

Some of us are looking at lots of angles as to why that could have happened, beginning at the entry box, you're going with tunnel-vision and screaming about the surface and oh how badly it hurt your eyes to even watch.

B, the surface blows. JMO.

That's a fine opinion to have, and I fully respect anyone's choice to not take their wagering dollars to Del Mar this summer.

But at the same time, that's not a solid argument in this type of conversation.

Of course, you're going to be intellectually honest about it and also take into account the field Student Council faces next time, right?

Naturally, he could finish up the track on dirt against East Coast horses, and it would prove almost nothing about this race.

Just putting that out there in advance so everyone doesn't get too proud of themselves if he returns to tougher competition and doesn't duplicate this effort.

2:07 final time... really Brian, even those dogs should be able to run faster than that.

the poly is crap! at least cushion seems to be ok, hopefully if other tracks switch, it will be to cushion and not poly.

Del Mar, Woodbine, and Arlington should throw that **** out and get a refund.

I'd much rather try to make sense of it and look at it logically instead of letting a groundswell of emotion come over me and flip out and scream bloody poly murder everytime something happens on poly that I don't like/expect/care for and everytime a horse wins a graded stakes race that I don't think deserves it.

But hey, to each his own -- if it works for you....