The same could be said for the Woodward if RA wasn't entered. However I don't agree with the thinking that last year's Travers was a slugsfest.

It would be a better race with Rachel in it, that is absolutely true. What I said is that I don't think the luster is lost on the Travers just cause of Rachel skipping it. Even without her it is a better Travers than we have seen in several years. And I think the combined quality of the Travers and Woodward now is better than the combined quality of the Travers and Woodward had Rachel gone in the Travers. Now there are two compelling, must see races instead of one.

Good post. I agree, the way it fell these 2 races will be better with Rachel running in the Wood. The Travers was alreay really good w/o her. The Wood needs her.

I can understand what you are saying now, the way I see it is last year's Travers's field is pretty much the same field we have this year minus RA. The race really needed Big Brown to elevate it to an A race level for some, but without him in it, it is the same as not having RA in this year's race.

i don't recall anyone calling mtb's connections 'chicken' when they didn't go in the haskell, which contained two of the classic winners... she's already beaten the top colts twice, and now she's doing something that is seldom done these days-taking on older males when she's still 3. i can't believe that anyone is complaining considering the route she could be taking...a safe one like a certain other top female.

as for the contention that 10f is why they're skipping the travers....um, yeah-sure. had these guys owned her sooner, she'd have gone in the ky derby.

and it will mean something for her legacy, or whatever you want to call it, should she win the woodward. down the road, when she's long retired, people will bring up this race should she win-not the ones she skipped.

Tale of Slowkati had a career high Beyer of 95 going into the race, had a 93 in his last race which was his highest as a 3yo.

Court Vision had a career high Beyer on the dirt of 90.

Cool Coal Man had a career high Beyer of 98.

You can look at what those horses did later and try and say it was a good field but at that time those horses had done nothing and all have still done nothing at 10 furlongs on the dirt.

When I get the PPs for the entries for this year's Travers I'll do a comparison but I am guessing top to bottom this year will win every matchup.

he's hoping to get her to win a race that no female has won, with the added bonus of beating older males in a gr 1, as well as having a shot at winning the travers with a possible top 3 yo colt contender.

and i agree, he thinks no one can beat her.

Evidently he's not the only one.

Rachel May Send Asiatic Boy to Del Mar

As soon as trainer Kiaran McLaughlin found out Rachel Alexandra would be running in the Woodward Stakes (gr. I) Sept. 5 he quickly contacted Sheikh Mohammed bin Khalifa, the owner of his Woodward hopeful Asiatic Boy, about the possibility of heading to California

Big Brown couldn't have gotten to within 5 lengths of Rachel, juiced too booth.

Can you blame him?

Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.

Another person who has no grasp of what he saw in the Preakness.

Time has not improved the situation.

The problem with last year's Travers was last years crop. Other than BB, they just stunk. Yes TOE was the Cigar Mile and Harlem Rocker was a nice colt, beating Bribon (even at a mile) doesn't make you a world beater. The Cigar Mile was like the Travers, a solid evenly matched bunch but not strong, relative to other runnings.
Yes Cool Coal Man is coming to hand well right now (like his sire, a nice 4yo) and Macho Again, when he wants to be and when the situation is right, is a nice horse but as Sightseek pointed out, those two won major races because someone had too.
Comparing renewals of a given race I like to look at what I'd do if all of last years pp's were intesgrated into this years pp's for the same race. For obvious reasons its impossible but comparing such things is always speculative. Is there any horse who's pp's from last years Travers make you think he'd beat the major contenders in this year's running?

Actually, yes. He needed a race between the Tom Fool and the King's Bishop, and if there was ever a track where Munnings could get a Grade I win going 9F (to help the Coolmore boys for stallion purposes), it would be Monmouth.

He had to know he was 30/1 to beat her and he certainly would have never tried it without the obvious direction from her owners..That colt needs 7f's or a one turn mile.. The Cigar Mile in November should be his swan song..

Let's hope not. Whether Munnings wins or loses the Cigar Mile, at that point of his career, he probably won't be in the "he's done enough" category.

Contrary to belief I would never say Rachel Alexandra's connections are 'chicken'. I actually commend the approach they have taken, that is until now. While I do understand the legacy argument of facing older horses, I do think they are taking the road of less resistence and rather conveniently and are using Kensai who would be hard pressed to win either race as the reason why they chose the Woodward for RA. I would never assume Jess Jackson as dumb, we know who the top dog in that barn is and I am suggesting that he probably looked at both races and determined where RA would fit better in, not where Kensai would. As he should.

I can't argue numbers or beyers, however why should they be the sole determining factor of quality unless it's a dirt low number. I would prefer a balanced approach of common sense, the analysing of races, race dynamics, the competition and the numbers to reach a fair conclusion.

Do you take into consideration exactly what Asmussen said, which is that a Travers win would make Kensei's career? There aren't any races left that would make Rachel Alexandra have a better career in terms of body of work (with the exception of super goals like the DWC or BCC).

That's the reason why Kensei is in the Travers, they want a GI for him and he belongs there. Period.

NT

Maybe it wasn't the greatest field of all time but it wasn't the worse either. As I pointed out many of these horses have had time off(injuries) and I also pointed out many have gone on to win Gr.1's. The someone had to win argument is an opinion I can only agree or disagree with, it was a blanket statement. From what I have read from Sightseek, she is a knowledgable poster. So the comment was a little dissapointing after I used some examples that last yrs Travers was not as bad as what is widely believed. Maybe I had hoped for a better explanation, we will just have to wait and see what Colonel John does the rest of the year, where I was wrong earlier in the year on his winning return on turf, hey even I can get it wrong now and then.

That's a loaded question, you asking me if I trust Asmussen? I read what was said by he and Jackson. Obviously it makes sense to add a Gr. 1 to Kensai's resume, it also makes sense to have RA run in the Woodward. From a business decision it was right on, to give RA the road of less resistance it is better also. Yes we agree.

If you look at it from a historical perspective, yes they won "big" races, but look at the horses who won those races before them:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.p...ld=view&id=288

Tale of Ekati and Harlem Rocker would have barely been on the screen if they were up against some of those horses. Macho Again lost to Bullsbay - the same Bullsbay who is probably one of the worst Whitney winners ever. Court Vision has burned more of my money than any horse who ever ran so I won't go there. :o My point was, the quality of the horses running in last years triple crown races and up to this year as older horses is markedly poor. While they may have won this race and that race, it doesn't make them any more talented.

We forgot to mention the wonderful Mambo In Seattle in this conversation. ;) Last year's Travers was exciting because it was the first in a long time where it wasn't either a super horse cantering to victory or a small field, but it wasn't that talented of a field.

Personally I don't like how Colonel John was campaigned from the Travers to his turf victory so seeing him win that last race was neat.

Comparing eras...that's a wide open discussion open to intrepetation, there are alot of mediocre races nowadays, I said earlier the days of campaigning a Cigar like horse are almost extinct, the better horses retire and are sent off to the farm. Which is a reason why we get horses beating each other now, this is probably what we have to look fwd to, if a horse is so good there is little chance of seeing them past their 3 yr old season, if we are lucky some run as a 4 yr old like Curlin, and even with him I can't say he was in the class of Cigar.

Colonel John may be Pacific Classic bound, if he wins that then what? He will have beaten Rail Trip and Informed. It probably won't get him a huge amount of respect but that's racing today. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I'm afraid that Great Day of the Breeders Cup has drastically changed the face of of horse racing for the worst.

I'd agree that many of the good horses are not given a chance to show how good they really are due to abbreviated campaigns and early retirements (Bernardini, Hard Spun etc.), but I just think that the horses that ran last year have continued to show that they are more Grade 3 types winning Grade 1 races.

Bullsbay is now a go after they found no other good options. Cool Coal Man, It's a Bird, and Da Tara should be in as well. Maybe Smooth Air and/or Dry Martini? Past the Point? Tizway?

Macho Again Confirmed For Woodward

That's good news about Bullsbay, I still wish they threw her into the Travers' but I hope this doesn't turn out to be another Mother Goose.

I retract my statement:zz: :)

Funny considering just six days earlier:

http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/...less-woodward/

Law of Power #27a ENTER ACTION WITH BOLDNESS :rolleyes:
the weasel who attempts to manipulate others with advice from self help books should therefore...


thats the way to manage em'


Macho Again is interesting because he can actually get 10 furlongs and has enough talent to win a race like the derby trial(trail) run @ 7f. whatever that even means...

I think he could have been maybe a legit Grade 2 horse with a supertrainer

macho also leads the nation in corny headlines

"Macho Again Randy Savage Wins The Stephen Foster"
who even writes this stuff??


blood horse currently has a bad pun to announce the hemming and hawing of the connections:
"Macho, Again Confirmed For Woodward Try"
:rolleyes: was the comma really necessary?

[quote=freddymo]Giving Kensei a shot to win the second most important 3 year old race is reasonable. All the horses are going to duck her, now McLaughlin is looking for a home for his wanna be Handicap horse. The only reason Pletcher would even try and beat her with QR is because of the magnitude of the race. You think Pletcher wanted to try Munnings in Haskell?
BTW if he only paid 8 mil for Rachel he stole her. Ashado was 10mil and she couldn't have been within 10 lengths of Rachel on her best day.[/QUOTE]
Ashado was bought as a broodmare under far different conditions. Her value is immaterial because he wont sell her anyway.

While he said this it isnt actually true

He may have been Horse of the Year with an average trainer

[quote=Cannon Shell]Are you suggesting that 10 mil for a St B in foal to Indy (300k maybe?) isn't relative to a M'doro world class racing filly..What am I missing indy on top? lol

I forgot Curlin is in her future? Ok save reality for 1 second give me a fig she would sell for at Keeneland Mixed 10 in foal to Indy... 15 mil?

[quote=freddymo]Who would she sell to? There is no market at that level. Maybe in theory she is worth more but the reality is that only one guy plays at that level and he apparently wasnt interested at 8 million. She cant earn the money on the track, she cant collect any stud fees.

[quote=Cannon Shell][quote=freddymo]
Who would she sell to? There is no market at that level. Maybe in theory she is worth more but the reality is that only one guy plays at that level and he apparently wasnt interested at 8 million. She cant earn the money on the track, she cant collect any stud fees.

I understand the market is depressed.

It makes him worth significantly more than he is now though, wouldn't you say?

NT