Thank you, well said.

I think winning the TC is a big deal. I don't think winning the Belmont when it's not part of winning a TC is a big deal. It used to be. But it's not anymore. When I first started watching racing, the BC was new. For many people, including myself, while the BC was the year end championship, the fall races at Belmont were almost nearly as important. The JCGC was for years the championship defining race. During those years, the race was 12f. It made the Belmont a lot more significant to me because you wanted to know which 3yos could step up to that distance to take on the top older horses in the JCGC. But then they stopped running the JCGC at that distance. So for me, the Belmont didn't matter anymore. The only time it matters to me is when it's the final test for a 3yo trying to win the crown. Otherwise, it becomes much ado about nothing. Doesn't mean that some good horses haven't run in it and won it. But, especially the last 20 years, some pretty average to mediocre horses have also won it. I think that more horses win that race that would be considered below the standard for what we'd expect for the race than maybe any other top race.

Super post, Danzig.

--Dunbar

thanks ateam and dunbar. just proves the adage that even a blind squirrel can find an acorn once in a while. :D

I am 34 and know that Azeri would bury RA. Not o mention the other fillies mentioned ie Ruffian.

please tell me that i'm reading this wrong-azeri would bury ruffian? or do you mean ruffian would bury rachel?

RA= Rachel Alexandra.

I don't think Azeri would bury Ruffian but it is a nice match-up to imagine.

Ruffian would destroy RA as well I think.

No doubt. Because many fans these days are unfamiliar with Ruffian, except through books, youtube, etc., her brilliance is treated more as lore than fact. Make no mistake. Ruffian was all that.

Here is a list of all of the horses that have run in all three TC races since the start of 2000:

Impeachment
Monarchos
Point Given
AP Valentine
Dollar Bill
War Emblem
Proud Citizen
Medaglia d'Oro
Funny Cide
Scrimshaw
Smarty Jones
Giacomo
Afleet Alex
Hard Spun
Curlin
Big Brown

Here is a list of those that ran in the Derby and Preakness and skipped the Belmont during that same span:

Fusaichi Pegasus
Captain Steve
High Yield
Hal's Hope
Congaree
Harlan's Holiday
Peace Rules
Ten Cents a Shine
Lion Heart
Imperialism
Borrego
Song of the Sword
Closing Argument
Wilko
High Fly
Greeley's Galaxy
Noble Causeway
Sun King
Going Wild
High Limit
Brother Derek
Sweetnorthernsaint
Street Sense
Circular Quay
Gayego

Here's the list of those that ran in the Derby, skipped the Preakness, then ran in the Belmont during that same span:

Aptitude
Wheelaway
Curule
Commendable
Invisible Ink
Thunder Blitz
Balto Star
Perfect Drift
Essence of Dubai
Empire Maker
Ten Most Wanted
Birdstone
Master David
Andromeda's Hero
Bluegrass Cat
Steppenwolfer
Jazil
Deputy Glitters
Bob and John
Tiago
Rags to Riches
Denis of Cork
Tale of Ekati
Anak Nakal

Here's the list of those that skipped the Derby then ran in the Preakness and Belmont over that same span:

Hugh Heffner
Magic Weisner
Rock Hard Ten
Eddington
CP West
Macho Again
Icabad Crane

Here's a list of posters that give a fug:

1.

Assuming Barbaro belongs in the first flight it is obviously the superior flight of horses.

I agree with you that there are some breakdowns that are freak injuries. But I wouldn't consider Charismatic's breakdown a freak injury. Did you see Charismatic train the week leading up to the Belmont? That horse was as sore as any horse I have ever seen.

I agree with you that Giacomo was never really that great a horse to begin with so it's hard to say if the Triple Crown ruined him or not. The TC certainly knocked him out badly. He didn't even run after the Belmont until February of the next year. His respectable 4th place finish in the BC Classic was not in his 3 year old year. It was in his 4 year old year.

I would agree with you about Big Brown and Bluegrass Cat. Both came back to win again. After Big Brown's wins in the summer I think he ended up with another quarter crack. But I think he could have come back and run again if it wasn't for his stud deal.

I would agree with you that horses who retired sound due to stud deals should obviously not be mentioned on lists of horses that the Triple Crown ruined. But there are plenty of horses that the TC knocked out that were never the same again. There is no doubt that the Triple Crown is grueling. There isn't a single trainer that would dispute that. The only question is whether the TC is so grueling that it causes irreperable damage. I would say that in some cases it does and in some cases it doesn't. It depends on the horse.

but in many cases i believe that horses who suffer an injury and subsequently retire only do so because of successes in the t.c. races which would then warrant a better stud deal. many times it is admitted that a horse could come back from an injury-but 'we were going to retire him, so there's no point'. or there's 'he wouldn't make the bc, so there's no point'. either way, the horse was done at three. or maybe a horse seems just a bit off, so they retire rather than risk a loss-same excuse given. something isnt quite right in their mind, so they don't want to risk it.

but in many cases i believe that horses who suffer an injury and subsequently retire only do so because of successes in the t.c. races which would then warrant a better stud deal. many times it is admitted that a horse could come back from an injury-but 'we were going to retire him, so there's no point'. or there's 'he wouldn't make the bc, so there's no point'. either way, the horse was done at three. or maybe a horse seems just a bit off, so they retire rather than risk a loss-same excuse given. something isnt quite right in their mind, so they don't want to risk it.

i think when people say phantom injury-it's possible their belief is that something minor is made out to be something that would force retirement, and in many cases it just isn't that serious. but we also know that horses can be injured and not come back as well-again, as i said above, it has to do with risk.
as for grueling- i don't know that the tc is any more gruelling than any series of races. horses are injured after running a series before getting to the t.c.-old fashioned for example. the progression from 6/7 f to 1 1/8 can be just as demanding for these horses.

You don't know if the TC is more grueling than other series of races? Is there another series of races that even comes close to the TC in terms of being demanding on the horse? They run 3 times in 5 weeks and finish with a 1 1/2 mile race. And the horses aren't even fully mature yet. There's no other series of races that even comes close to that.