actually gen, i think more education is the key to many of our ills,

and scuds, i'm not from arkansas, and not a hillbilly. once again you seem to want to get to the lowest common denominator. my contention is, at close range, it doesn't matter if you get shot with a .22, a .38, or an uzi--and that if you can't buy the GUN, what the hell does it matter the bullet--are you going to throw it?

and why does this once again have to become a partisan debate? and why reply TO ME about conservatives, i'm not one!

Oh great.

Here we go now.

no, i'm done with this. you try to have a conversation, but some want to resort to the same tired, trite phrases, or start with the name calling bs. tis a shame.

The bastardos.

What can I do to change your mind? :D

I'm going to throw up.

Oh goodie!

That's true, Danzig; you do tend to be pretty spread out over the political spectrum, but an opposition to gun restrictions tends to be associated with a conservative bent.

I think my frustration is that I agree with you, education and attacking the root causes of poverty would do a great deal towards combating gun violence, regardless of restrictions on guns. Where I get angry, and NOT at you personally; I feel bad you took it as a personal attack (though please tell me where I resorted to "name calling?" Unless you think being called "conservative" is being called a bad name? Tee hee) is that I feel the (generally) conservative attitude towards no restrictions on firearms carries no corresponding attempt to reduce gun violence- arm the rich so they can shoot the poor, so to speak, rather than trying to combat sources that lead to violence in the first place.

And I think the gun issue is very different in rural areas than it is in urban (as someone else said) and that it's hard to find a common ground because the circumstances are soooooo different.

GR: I realize that We are at the opposite ends of the spectum politically, but saying that Conservatives feel that "the poor" deserve it and could change their lives if they really really wanted to,AND,"arm the rich to shoot the poor" is totally an unfair projection on your part! I don't know anyone who feel that poor folks(or old or disabled) are in those situations out of choice! But there are many people who abuse the systems set into place for the care of the aforementioned groups(workmens comp scams including doctors who overbill State), Welfare recipients who work "under the table" for cash,etc etc.There are individuals who scam SSI and myriad other examples of people trying get something that's not theirs/for nothing. Secondly, I don't have knowledge of any rich guys riding around their gated communities doing "drive-bys" cuz they don't like the job the gardener did. There are home invasion robberies every day here in SoCal and it's primarily the wanta-haves taking it from the older folks and the weak. Car-jackings,road rage,and Gangs dot the landscape as well. In these situations, conservative/liberal doesn't come up at all. People should be able to defend themselves and their homes,and kids should be safe from guns and predators...at all costs!

Not getting into this again EXCEPT....we always hear about how the poor scam the system etc etc...Welfare Cadillac crap...frankly that offends me! What about all the White Collar crime that never gets prosecuted, rick folks scamming the poor out of what little they have? Some old white guy sitting in an office in a highrise somewhere can ruin more lives with the stroke of a pen (or a click of a mouse) than 1000 drivebys or 10,000 welfare cheats! It would be amusing if not so tragic when folks say, "I don't think folks are poor cause they want to be or are lazy BUT....look at all the bad stuff they do!" What hypocracy!!!

Tell that to the person who loses their loved one...

I agree with Timm.

To the person who loses a loved one, nothing can be worse and I by no means will belittle their suffering but my point TAKEN IN CONTEXT is real! Some corporate giant (read: old white guy) can ruin tens, even hundreds of thousands of lives with the stroke of a pen! As Bob Dylan once sang, "Steal a little and they call you a thief, steal a lot and they call you king".

That is not the gist of what I said ...and you know it! You still make it out about the rich vs the poor and that's unfortunate. You lose all efficacy when you draw the line between the 2 'cultures' if you will. Do you start with the premise that if someone is wealthy....then he must have cheated or got it through force?? You arbitrarilly make the wealthy to be the bad guys...that's just wrong. I'm living on a pension,and unable to work, but I don't begrudge any who make good with their endeavors and skills!

What does losing a loved one have to do with the topic? The coporate crap like Enron,Broadcomm etc doesn't happen every day.....and btw...Bob Dylan is a fool!

Never said it was personal Timm...I'm talking in general. Of course all rich folks aren't evil but neither are all poor folks lazy, dishonest etc. It's simply amusing when folks always start talking about welfare abuses etc instead of the real problems in this society. And...if you don't believe that there are indeed "two Americas", well, you are naive. Bottom line, with wealth comes power, and with power comes responsibility...the poor can't "fix" the problems of society and the rich sure haven't stepped up to do so!

The "corporate crap" isn't brought to light everyday...doesn't mean it doesn't occur. One or two sacrificial lambs doesn't stop corporate crime. Huge corporations that put profits above safety, human suffering, disease and death in fact does occur every day! If not, why are people dying of AIDS by the millions in Africa when there are drugs that could slow this? Why are people starving world-wide when there is food rotting in warehouses? I could go on for days...these are not simple problems and don't always have simple answers but the one thing that is true is that if the rich and powerful really put human life above profits, all could be dealt with!

I'm the one who said the "2 cultures",remember? All you have to do is open a paper out here...I am talking specifically. I specifically mentioned Doctors(rich) scamming the system....which affects the poor from getting their share because the money is gone! The burden to fix society isn't incumbent on the rich..it's the Govt. job to fix and run it efficiently.

Yeah, all those homeless Senators and Congressmen have really dropped the ball. Kidding aside, power comes from wealth.

Yeah,Somer,if you could get the Warlords in Africa to stop massacres,and an effective UN to force the safe distribution of food and drugs, and stop the jungle tribes from initiating their young men into manhood by raping them(Nat'l Geo) that'd be a start! You imply that the USA is the reason for all the evils. Evil men rule everywhere and their first and only duty is to prolong their stay in power. History is rife with those stories.