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-   -   Scat Daddy or Circular Quay? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3998)

ArlJim78 09-05-2006 09:28 AM

[quote=Danzig2]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
If you only knew why I posted here ;) ...It isn't because "I" want to learn anything, I can assure you of that..

QUOTE]


and modest too.....

yes, he's knowledgeable AND oh so humble. we are truly blessed that he deigns to share his insights here.

2Hot4TV 09-05-2006 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
2Hot, I'm not quite sure about his action. But i will say this, that horse is running completely within his own authority. Bejarano said in the Bashford that the horse himself dove to the inside and all he did was hang on and try to get through the hole.
Gomez never asked the horse to start running when he did and he took off like a jet.
Part of his appeal to me is that while he is a headstrong horse that does exactly what he wants to do exactly when he decides to do it, is that he has some personality and loves what he is doing out there. he appears to enjoy racing quite a lot. Its the rare horse who at an early age understands what his objective is out there.
He honestly seems to enjoy what he is doing. I can't find a recent 2yo to compare him too. I honestly think hes no plodder, and I think he will be better going longer when he can stalk moreso than drop to the back of the pack.
He just throws what I call a "knockout punch".

Don't get me wrong I like the horse and bet him yesterday. What I didn't like is how he was not intersted in the early going and the rider said he had to really get after him to get him to go. Now when he made up his mind to run it was all over. His action will develope as he matures, but it is similar to Barbaro's

Rupert Pupkin 09-05-2006 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oracle80
Rupert,
That horse does exactly what he wants to do when he wants to do it. Have you seen his other races? bejarano was just a passenger. Gomez didn't choose to rate that horse, the horse did what he wants. Choosing to rate means breaking well and grabbing a hold and taking back.
he didn't do anything wrong, but his reaction when the horse started that crazy move was funny to watch. Horse took him from 15 back to 6 back in a matter of seconds. he was saving ground(the right thing to do when trailing) and when the horse started that run without him urging him, he yanked him HARD to the right because it honestly looked like he was scared that he was gonna run into the back of the leaders. That was a pretty scary move.

One of the reasons that Gomez is so good is that he let's his horses settle in the place where they are most comfortable. There are pleny of jocks that would not have let that horse fall 15 lengths back. They would have been afraid to fall that far behind. They would have pushed the horse to stay closer. Gomez doesn't do that. If the pace is really fast, he's not afraid to let his horse drop 15 lengths back. I agree with you that CQ caught the field much sooner than GG was expecting. He had to swing out quicker than he was expecting.

Coach Pants 09-05-2006 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
In your opinion, which Pletcher baby is better and will win the Hopeful? (if you think Pletcher will win the race, which appears most likely)

I think Scat Daddy is a better horse and will assert himself Monday as the early deserving favorite for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile....You could tell he was special while watching him train at Churchill Downs the two weeks before the Derby with all of Pletcher's first string.

His dam side suggests he'll at least get the 1 1/16-mile distance of the Breeders' Cup Juvenile (although I'm not sure the Derby distance will suit him at three being that he is a Johanessburg...may be more of a miler type, we'll see...)

He is the goods though....

He's greener than Kermit. Would like to see Pletcher put him on the sidelines until next year. As of right now CQ is much the best.

Cunningham Racing 09-05-2006 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
sorry, don't see the need to drag a third party into this silly stuff. Steve has enough to do. What happened to the honor system? If these two both end up entered in the race we'll confirm it at that time.

There is no such thing in this business.....ask Petino about Zito, any pinhookers about O'Byrne, Satish Sanan about Lukas and Baffert, Fipke about Baffert, Jess Jackson about Headley.....get my drift?..Or would you like me to keep going?

I may work something out with you, but scumbag agents are the dirtiest players in our game and I won't wager that highly with people of that character level....remember, I am from New Orleans - not the back of a bus...

Cunningham Racing 09-05-2006 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I personally don't care why you post here, so again, no need to prove yourself to anyone. It's about being a stand up person. When you make claims for months before, and are wrong, admit it. Because we know you would be gloating, had Scat won. Again, YOU are the post race analyzer. You did it after the Hopeful remember. And we'll all hear you do it today on ATRAB. Can't wait for you to "analyze" the Hopeful.

Actually, you won't hear me, but thats another story ;)

oracle80 09-05-2006 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
There is no such thing in this business.....ask Petino about Zito, any pinhookers about O'Byrne, Satish Sanan about Lukas and Baffert, Fipke about Baffert, Jess Jackson about Headley.....get my drift?..Or would you like me to keep going?

I may work something out with you, but scumbag agents are the dirtiest players in our game and I won't wager that highly with people of that character level....remember, I am from New Orleans - not the back of a bus...

Ok, so whats your gripe with Nick? He has at least two good friends on this board that i know of, and hes a man of honor and character. Hes also legendary for helping out characters at the racetrack. Anyone whos ever been by his barn could tell you that.
Thats low. And if you are gonna jump on me, thats fine. I don't care. But don't screw with Nick.

Cunningham Racing 09-05-2006 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
Wrong once again. Here is Pletchers's quote from BH yesterday;

"I think this puts both horses right at the top of the class," Pletcher continued. "I thought Scat Daddy, considering everything, was the one horse that finished up well out of the speed duel. Circular Quay... is the divisional leader at this stage."

Doesn't sound to me like he was making it real clear that Scat Daddy is the best in the barn. If he considers CQ the divisional leader I believe that covers everyone in his barn.

We'll see when they go two turns...I have already acknowledged that CQ won the Hopeful and didn't take anything away from his perfromance and I went a step further by stating that he would probbably win the Champagne if entered - BUT, I still believe Scat Daddy will be better around two turns.....

Cunningham Racing 09-05-2006 11:08 AM

[quote=Danzig2]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
If you only knew why I posted here ;) ...It isn't because "I" want to learn anything, I can assure you of that..

QUOTE]


and modest too.....

I don't see a modesty issue with that quote....If you only understood, my boy ;)

oracle80 09-05-2006 11:13 AM

[quote=Cunningham Racing]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig2

I don't see a modesty issue with that quote....If you only understood, my boy ;)

Joel, shes a girl.
And I don't see a need for you to be modest if you slam dunk something. When you called out all the Darley/Godolphin/ Zabeel horses earlier this year you had a right to thump your chest, even if they are payed low win prices.
Anyone with a good and strong opinion is gonna be egocentric, thats just how it works.
But you are gonna be wrong more often than you are right, we all are. thats how racing is. You don't have to take being wrong as a personal offense. Its not the kind of game for that. Being wrong is a major part of this game.

oracle80 09-05-2006 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
We'll see when they go two turns...I have already acknowledged that CQ won the Hopeful and didn't take anything away from his perfromance and I went a step further by stating that he would probbably win the Champagne if entered - BUT, I still believe Scat Daddy will be better around two turns.....

Thats a fair statement. And i can see how someone might like Scat Daddy's higher early speed and more evenly paced style to suit two turns.
So why not just state it like that in the first place and save 90 posts worth of arguing Joel?

Seattleallstar 09-05-2006 11:16 AM

[quote=oracle80]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
Joel, shes a girl.
And I don't see a need for you to be modest if you slam dunk something. When you called out all the Darley/Godolphin/ Zabeel horses earlier this year you had a right to thump your chest, even if they are payed low win prices.
Anyone with a good and strong opinion is gonna be egocentric, thats just how it works.
But you are gonna be wrong more often than you are right, we all are. thats how racing is. You don't have to take being wrong as a personal offense. Its not the kind of game for that. Being wrong is a major part of this game.


you forgot shadwell and Gainsborough

Cunningham Racing 09-05-2006 11:18 AM

Evidentally, somebody didn't read my original thread after the Hopeful which is aptly headlined: "Scat Daddy WILL win the BC Juvenile" - which the last time I checked will be around two turns at a track I am very familiar with going 1 1/16 miles....

oracle80 09-05-2006 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
Evidentally, somebody didn't read my original thread after the Hopeful which is aptly headlined: "Scat Daddy WILL win the BC Juvenile" - which the last time I checked will be around two turns at a track I am very familiar with going 1 1/16 miles....

Well CQ already has shown he likes the track. But that might not apply because CD has scraped big days in the past and it might not be the same kinda track that he won on earlier this year. I think how each horse preps leading up to it might be the key. Todd was very coy yesterday after the race when discussing plans for both. I'm not sure which road he will take. Makes sense to me that scat daddy will be placed in the most likely winning spot that Pletcher can find. He still needs to win a grade one to be guranteed as a sire. I also imagine they won't meet until the Cup again. The problem is that I can't see Pletcher running either at Keeneland on polytrack.
So which one goes to the Champagne? Where does the other horse go? Does he elect to train either up to the BC?


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