Ummm ... Pillow ... or should I call you Mr. Pants? ...

... in any case ... I think you missed the point of my post ... by about two furlongs. Please read it again ... and then report back here.

Thanks.

Very true ...

... this is a below-average year for older horse ... but there have been many worse.

So far ... I give them a 3 on a scale of 10.

Yeah the money is high up there but also are the chances of coming away with injury. How many horse's have done as good as Lava Man here of late out West? Even the sprinters from out West have come to the East coast to run to stay healthy.

winning the Big Cap, HW Gold Cup, and Pacific Classic puts him close to lock status....Invasor would need to win the Woodward or JCGC and the BCC to overtake him (IMO)...Bernardini the Travers and BCC

winning the Big Cap, HW Gold Cup, and Pacific Classic have to put him close to "lock" status, Invasor would need to win the Woodward/or JCGC and the BCC, or Bernardini would need to win the Traver's and the BCC to overtake LM (IMO)

Here's the question I have ... and it's always the same one ... so by now you're all used to it ...

If it's so easy to win six straight graded stakes races in California ... how come no one else has done it?

The only thing that puts a "lock" on a championship ...

... is when the top horses meet each other several times ... and one of them wins consistently.

Otherwise ... it's just a matter of opinion.

Invasor and Bernardini are the ONLY two horses with a shot
how many horses in history have swept those 3 G1 handicaps in one year?
opinion? that's what it is in VOTING
what if Suave wins the BCC? who you voting for?
it's not who the horse has beaten, it's the races he's won
especially in a year without a true handicap superstar
I'll not say it's a lock, but it's pretty darn close

Its not who they beat but what races they have won? Since when?
So suppose a horse swept three huge purse races while beating noone of any real value? Just like lava man!!!! That makes him HOY? Well lets see what happens when he comes east.

Everyone is overracting on both sides of this argument. To call Lava Man a cheap handicapper or consider him only able to contend in California is ridiculous. On the other hand, we aren't looking at Ghostzapper here. Today was impressive, not his best, but impressive. He dueled through honest fractions and did what he needed. His success later in the year may depend on how the races set up. If there isn't a real speed horse to hook him at Churchill, I'd take him over what I have seen so far.

Ummm ... have you ever hear of the phrase "azz-backwards"?

My theory is he doesn't have to go east
let someone else do the dirty work
but...in most years yes, you're right, he hasn't done enough
this year however, winning those races certainly puts him #1
because there's not a horse out there with a resume who comes close
at least not in the Classic division

Ummm ... like ... how many threads are we going to have on the same subject?

Haven't you noticed that there are 14 of these things on the board already?

East Coast bias...?
I'm in the mid-west so I can remain objective
don't kill the messanger
I didnt make the races he's won Grade 1's

Have to disagree with Mike here. Good Reward is much better than people think. His race a few back got a similar figure to English Channel with massive ground loss taken into account. That being said his dirt form was hidden and while he isn't the East's best, he beat some good freakin horses today. And he sure looked like a washed out mess going into the gate to do it. Plus the track played slower than usual today. The figure won't be huge, but it won't be nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

oracle you have a message

The point of racing is to win races and to make money. The two sort of go hand in hand. Who cares where hes raced, who cares who he races against, who cares who is better, who cares about anything when it comes to Lava Man. Lava Man is a gelding so it doesnt matter. All that matters is the horse wins when he goes to the gate. He makes money for the connections. Who cares if he gets beat by an East Coast horse or from a horse in Europe. Point is that the horse wins and makes money. Enough said.

This is clearly and East coast west Coast thing. Lava Man may not ship well, his owner may have nothing to do with it. Some horses just dont do well being moved around the country or world. Thats just a fact. There are plenty of Euros that do not come over here even if the purse money is big because the horses dont even change countries well in Europe. And they are very good horses.

And all these Invasor, Bernadini will beat him... from the same folks that gave us Flower Alley. I did not see his name come up. Its spitefulness and jealousy.

Lava man did not look comfortable to me the first part of the race at all. Way too much tugging. I thought for sure he had it. Then he settled down around the first turn and began to run comfortably on the back stretch. Then he had some trouble again on the turn home and still won the friggin race. Watch the race again. I thought some of you guys were experts at watching races. Tell me Im wrong. It was not an easy run for the horse and he won easily. Fck the times. Damn fine animal. Gets the job done even when he is not in perfect form.

Yeah, wait till Lava Man runs into a real Grade 1 horse like Flower Alley, that horse will show him what heart is about! :rolleyes: