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-   -   Baffert, Point Given among Hall of Fame finalists (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28070)

Danzig 02-25-2009 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch
We don't know what Point Given would have done, but he was certainly no ordinary horse, even by G1 standards. As discussed, he is the only horse to win 4 straight million dollar races in a 6 for 7 campaign at 3. He missed being the 2yo champ by a desperate nose to Macho Uno in the BC Juvenile.

i don't think you should get voted in based on what people think you could have done had the shed not called. i only mentioned the four big races in a row because i figured that's why people would vote for him. but as btw said, he never faced older either.
certainly the bar is not set as high as it used to be, which is a shame. and if less is acceptable, i'd imagine that's what we'll keep getting.

Cannon Shell 02-25-2009 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Let me see if I have this straight.....horses belong in the Hall of Fame if they are close to being 2YO champions and not ordinary?

OK....gotcha.

When the hell is Jeannie Jones getting in anyway?
as soon as she quits HRTV

Indian Charlie 02-25-2009 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
If they did that.. King Glorious would be in the hall of fame... as would Indian Charlie.
How about Dixie Doodle?

Or Critical Eye?

10 pnt move up 02-26-2009 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I'd give a razor thin edge to Best Pal - but he doesn't have a shot because he's paired with two other West Coast horses.

In BP's career - he was just 1-for-9 when he ran at a track outside of the Southern Cal circuit. He might edge out Tiznow and Point Given slightly as far as West Coast voters go ... but I doubt he gets a single vote outside of the West.

Tiznow was 3-for-4 and Point Given 5-for-8 outside of So Cal.

All of these three horses each had a run where they strung together four outstanding race.

For Best Pal it was '91:

* Won the Gr 2 San Fernando by 3.5 lengths over Olympio with a 121 Beyer

* Won the Grade 1 Strub by 1.25 lengths over Dinard with a 119.

* Won the Grade 1 Big Cap by 5.50 lengths over Twighlight Agenda with a 123

* Won the Grade 1 Oaklawn Park Cap by 1.25 lengths over Sea Cadet with a 121

For Tiznow it was '00:

* 2nd in Pacific Classic to Skimming with 115 Beyer

* Won the Super Derby by 6 with a 114 Beyer

* Won the Goodwood by a half length with a 119

* Won the Breeders Cup Classic over Giant's Causeway with a 117


For Point Given it was '01:

Winning the Preakness, Belmont (by 12+), Haskell, and Travers with 111, 114, 106, 117.
I think Best Pal was a better race horse then Tiznow, but only before his injury right before the 92' hollywood gold cup, after that he was a shawdow of himself though he was still able to win grade 1 races. I also think Best Pal was running with better horses.

Sightseek 02-26-2009 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Open Mind was never better than 3rd in her 5 tries outside of age restricted races.

The three times Sky Beauty was not more than 0.40-to-1 outside of age restricted races - she got wholloped each time as well.

Sillverbulletday didn't win those good races against older - but she ran quite fast in all but one of them. Her Beyers of 109 and 110 in defeat look pretty good when you consider Azeri only twice reached those levels.

Silverbullletday won the Alabama by 9 lengths with a 115 Beyer. Sky Beauty got just a 98 Beyer in her Alabama win by comparison.

Silverbulletday won 11 straight Graded Stake races against members of her own sex - and ran a triple digit Beyer in each one. She also shipped well ... which is why I think she gets the slight nod.
Azeri's PP's, I think these are going into the Apple Blossom?
www.drf.com/eclipse/2003/pps/azeri.pdf

The Indomitable DrugS 02-26-2009 09:21 AM
Yep.

The pp's for her final season can be found here ...

http://www.drf.com/eclipse/2004/pps/of.pdf

10 pnt move up 02-26-2009 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Yep.

The pp's for her final season can be found here ...

http://www.drf.com/eclipse/2004/pps/of.pdf
whats funny is how much faster, on the figures, Azeri is then Zenyatta.

Sightseek 02-26-2009 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
whats funny is how much faster, on the figures, Azeri is then Zenyatta.
I'm not a "fan" of Zenyatta at all, but she is coming off two 108s.

You want to see fast, check out Sightseek in her second to last race. :{>: :D

slotdirt 02-26-2009 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
whats funny is how much faster, on the figures, Azeri is then Zenyatta.
You could make that statement with <insert filly/mare champion here> over the last 20 years and it would be mostly true. I'd only suggest that I still don't trust the figures that come out of synthetics and the California ones in particular.

slotdirt 02-26-2009 01:37 PM
Speaking of filly/mare champions of the last 20 years, why the heck isn't Inside Information in the Hall of Fame?

KirisClown 02-26-2009 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Speaking of filly/mare champions of the last 20 years, why the heck isn't Inside Information in the Hall of Fame?

I think she got in last year...

slotdirt 02-26-2009 01:53 PM
I looked up inductees on their website and didn't see her name; perhaps it's just slow in updating. Anywho...

KirisClown 02-26-2009 02:02 PM

Linny 02-26-2009 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Anytime a horse goes off at 56/1 in the ILL Derby during the 3yo season and 133/1 odds in the Met Mile during there 4-year-old season... there probably not going to sniff the Hall of Fame no matter how many wire-to-wire wins they stack up later on in there career.
By those standards horses like Symie, Seabiscuit and more are unworthy. They ran in low claiming company early on. I don't see BTA getting in to the Hall, but I don't thinbk it's because he wasn't a great 3yo.

slotdirt 02-26-2009 02:04 PM
Yeah, it's on her wikipedia page so I figured it must have been the case.

Not that this is a Zenyatta thread, but that filly would have taken Zenyatta behind the woodshed.

Indian Charlie 02-26-2009 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Yeah, it's on her wikipedia page so I figured it must have been the case.

Not that this is a Zenyatta thread, but that filly would have taken Zenyatta behind the woodshed.
Aren't they both fillies? What would she have done with her behind the woodshed?

The Indomitable DrugS 02-26-2009 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linny
By those standards horses like Symie, Seabiscuit and more are unworthy. They ran in low claiming company early on. I don't see BTA getting in to the Hall, but I don't thinbk it's because he wasn't a great 3yo.
Stymie was never more than 6/1 as a 4yo - Seabiscuit was never more than 6/1 as a 4yo .. Black Tie Affair was 133/1 as a 4yo.

The point was Black Tie Affair isn't going to be a hall of famer just because he piled up a bunch of real nice wire-to-wire wins in one season.

slotdirt 02-26-2009 03:35 PM
It's not like Black Tie Affair would be the Catfish Hunter of the Hall if he ever made it. Unbridled, Strike the Gold, and Summer Squall weren't exactly chumps in 1991.

King Glorious 02-26-2009 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
It's not like Black Tie Affair would be the Catfish Hunter of the Hall if he ever made it. Unbridled, Strike the Gold, and Summer Squall weren't exactly chumps in 1991.
They weren't exactly a who's who of champions either.

Merlinsky 02-26-2009 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
We already went through this last year. I will copy-paste what I posted last year about it.
An update about Lady's Secret: her daughter Good Looks that won about half a million got shipped to Japan as a yearling (by Mr. Prospector out of Lady's Secret and a grey filly, would've been fun to see here maybe) and she had a bay filly Kyowa Happiness who won a G3 stakes in Japan. Good Looks has a daughter Power of Love that's 9 by Sunday Silence. Geez talk about blueblood, sadly went 0-15. They went and bred her though to Silver Charm so just take that in, the who's who in the front of that pedigree. Her lone colt racing that I found, Leading Part, is 3 this year.

About Lukas gals in general, I'd count Azeri at age 6. We don't how good Vallenzeri is gonna be but he sure looks flashy. She did take a trip to Storm Cat and come up short. I'm sure they had Genuine Risk fears there but maybe it was just that SC was on the fertility decline.

I assume Azeri's gonna be on next year's ballot.


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