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-   -   Pletcher BC positive; Hearing pending (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26576)

AeWingnut 12-06-2008 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I dont remember

Jon Court wins a race for you and you don't remember?

I remember that time he won for me and I had to sign for a $2k exacta at Oaklawn :D

he was #8 :o


I wonder why he isn't doing so well. The guy used to bring in everything and anything so long as he wasn't up against Pat Day :mad:

Cannon Shell 12-06-2008 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeWingnut
Jon Court wins a race for you and you don't remember?

I remember that time he won for me and I had to sign for a $2k exacta at Oaklawn :D

he was #8 :o


I wonder why he isn't doing so well. The guy used to bring in everything and anything so long as he wasn't up against Pat Day :mad:
He won a few for me, I know he won a race at CD on the grass on Silent Emotion. I dont remember who rode her when she won the stake at KD. Maybe Joe Johnson? I know he won a stake there for me on Karly's Harley. As a matter of fact I think they both won the same meet.

philcski 12-06-2008 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Dont make assumptions about who is and isnt "juicing". You would be surprised by some of the names that never appear in the papers and seemingly get a pass....
Yeah, agreed... which is why I hedged myself later and said "nobody should get a free pass"...

CSC 12-06-2008 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
I have no other evidence but something certainly stinks. Horses typically win when they get favorable trips. Horses winning when they don't get the best trip (or even when they get the worst trip) are a cause for a red flag.
I like to call it the 'energizer bunny' effect, they keep going and going and going...ect...It's important to say we are speculating here, but something didn't quite add up on how his horses ran like alkaline batteries.

CSC 12-06-2008 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
The only turf stake i won at CD was the Cardinal and Court was aleady in CA. He did ride Silent Emotion who may have won one of those overnight stakes.
Now I am wracking my brain, it wasn't Silent Emotion that I know, it was before that, Court was the rider and the horse wired the field in a turf route race. I think it paid 9-1, now I don't know why I remember those details but not the horse.

philcski 12-06-2008 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
Here's my take on this from a race watching perspective.

In the glory days, Pletcher horses would win, even though, in most cases, they were getting the worst trips, as WIDE Johnny V was up (and giving his patented, wide, no cover, premature trips). You'd typically see JV beating on these horses on the turn and they'd still have enough to draw in the stretch.
Not happening any longer; these horses are not winning with JV up and, interestingly, in some cases, they'll win with another jock and a better trip.

I have no other evidence but something certainly stinks. Horses typically win when they get favorable trips. Horses winning when they don't get the best trip (or even when they get the worst trip) are a cause for a red flag. The dude was a juicer. No doubt about it. They took his drugs away and he's firing blanks (relative to past years). Having been around in the Oscar and Ferraiola , etc. eras, I'd like to think that I can spot juicers.
Very much agree with this

The Fleet Indian "upgrade" was what concerned me the most.

Cannon Shell 12-06-2008 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
Now I am wracking my brain, it wasn't Silent Emotion that I know, it was before that, Court was the rider and the horse wired the field in a turf route race. I think it paid 9-1, now I don't know why I remember those details but not the horse.
No Deadline maybe?

Riot 12-07-2008 12:14 AM
RMTC disbanded
 
The RMTC has disbanded. There is no need for it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, and years of tedious research, are saved.

Horseplayers on the internet will now officially decide which trainers are juicers, and which horses have been doped.

Voting will be done fans, from their home computers via a soon-to-be-announced website.

Voting will close the Monday after a weekend of racing, at midnight.

Trainer suspensions will be announced by noon every Tuesday.

docicu3 12-07-2008 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
The RMTC has disbanded. There is no need for it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars, and years of tedious research, are saved.

Horseplayers on the internet will now officially decide which trainers are juicers, and which horses have been doped.

Voting will be done fans, from their home computers via a soon-to-be-announced website.

Voting will close the Monday after a weekend of racing, at midnight.

Trainer suspensions will be announced by noon every Tuesday.
Used to be that at the top of the stretch a TAP horse would look other horses in the eye and never back off they all had unbelievable saying power now they don't win even at rates it seems thet should....it's the owners that will drive the game when they take all the horses away.

Riot 12-07-2008 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
:rolleyes:
Since you seem so sure, can you explain what has happened to Pletcher's stable? As has been mentioned here, by astute players, Pletcher's horses seemed to have multiple gears. Suddenly, they don't anymore. I'm not suggesting anything, but since you seem so sure about the point you are poorly making, what has changed exactly?
Sorry. Don't buy the premise, can't contribute to the bit.

the_fat_man 12-07-2008 02:37 PM
Got to give credit where it's due.

Pletcher has won 2 turf races today:

Tale of a Lady at CRC off an 8 MONTH layoff

and

Il Girasole at HOL off a 15 MONTH layoff

Any way you cut it, that's good training.

Indian Charlie 12-07-2008 03:45 PM
Clearly the reason for these stats is that he had English Channel in his barn those years, but not this one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
He's always been a super trainer off the bench. I believe he got a turf horse to dead heat a few days back at Aqueduct off another big layoff. By no means am I saying Pletcher can't train. He's a very good trainer. But, something is up in the barn.

Here's some interesting stats I read on another board. In terms of grade 1 wins. Pletcher had

10 in 2005
17 in 2006
17 in 2007
3 in 2008

Grade 1 wins in New York for Pletcher

7 in 2005
11 in 2006
8 in 2007
0 in 2008

Yeah, it's business as usual. :rolleyes:

CSC 12-07-2008 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
No Deadline maybe?
I don't think so, it's okay I've given up, I tried a google search to no avail. I remember making a few dollars that day, thanks to that win. The cheque's in the mail, thanks.

sumitas 12-07-2008 04:40 PM
Racing needs to keep up the momentum for dope testing . You can see it's levelling the playing field, as one would expect .

AeWingnut 12-07-2008 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitas
Racing needs to keep up the momentum for dope testing . You can see it's levelling the playing field, as one would expect .

I think we have a positive

Kasept 12-07-2008 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitas
Racing needs to keep up the momentum for dope testing . You can see it's levelling the playing field, as one would expect .
:confused: Where has the playing field been leveled exactly?

Cannon Shell 12-07-2008 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
:confused: Where has the playing field been leveled exactly?
Yankee Stadium


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