I love the always solution-oriented folks who preach about how the sport doesn't need fans, but gamblers.

Well, how the **** are we gonna get gamblers? You're not taking any gamblers away from the casinos, online poker, or anything like that. It's not happening.

We get gamblers by creating new fans, many of whom slowly evolve into gamblers or a combination of the two. That's what happened to me, and I'm pretty sure that's what happened to most of you as well.

There's no way to create horseplayers. You have to create fans first.

You don't think that bringing racing to them(having it on tv at home on channels like TVG) is a lot easier than bringing them to the races? Bringing racing to them will certainly make new fans a lot quicker than trying to convince someone to go to Aqueduct for the first time.

yeah, I think you do have to be fan to bet horse racing. It's really confusing trying to read a program if you don't know what you are looking at. So many different variable that you don't see with other betting propositions.

I can tell you from personal experience that trying to get a non horse person to watch TVG is impossible--they just don't grasp it. Now, the national coverage is different but is too far and few between...

Racetracks are great in the morning but terrible during the races. TV is much better. In ten years everyone will have High Definition TV, which will help the game a bit. Racing on HDTV is incredible.

No, I don't. You have to bring the horses to them. You have to have a product to market. What's the product now? "Come see Horse X run once every three months then go breed more horses made out of glass"?

If I know nothing about the horses (jury's still out on that one), what's making me put on TVG?

Something about the sport has to catch their eye, and it ain't "Check out all the Pick 3 wheels you can do!"

Good horses, good stories, horses who run often, compelling races. That's what attracts fans, and essentially, what attracts gamblers.

And if I'm wrong, give me an alternative solution. Tell me what will create a horseplayer besides creating a fan first.

High Def TV will help.

Any non-comedians have any alternative solutions?

why...to get the butts in the seats...they need a better product at bad tracks...i still wont play 2nd tier tracks because they dont have purses that are attractive to good horses..people for the most part want some reliabilty in the fact that the horse they play wont stop or be stiffed ..though even at a good to exellent meet this happens..just no way im betting a 5,000 clmer where all the horses have injuries..and havent won in 2years....i know they have a place in the big picture of racing ..but thats the problem as i see it

Well, ask yourself this, who is a candidate to be a "new wagering fan at the racetrack?"

To me it's the 25-35 year-old single male.

Ask youself... What do I need to do to get 25-35 year-old single males into the track?

Answer: 21-30 year-old females.

Make every day Ladies Day. On the weekends, give them a betting voucher worth $5. I guarantee this will pay for itself.

Learn a little from the NBA. Been to an NBA game lately? Non-stop entertainment. I'm not sure you need an exhibition of several monkeys ****ing a football between every race, but a little music doesn't hurt. Check out Arlington on Fridays....

[quote=ateamstupid]Tell me what will create a horseplayer besides creating a fan first.QUOTE]

This, my friend, is the $100 billion question that all marketers within the industry are furiously searching for an answer to....this industry has a mountian of challenges and this is the biggest one....In the 21st century, there are so many alternative entertainment options or ways to spend your past time....time is also becoming more and more important and most people have less of it now days than ever before...it is a fast world and when people get a chance to slow down a little they are very selective in their hobbies and horse racing is usually down on the list from most....Also, there are so many other wagering opportunities for the more serious gamers, and the popularity of games like Texas Hold 'Em has basically stolen the spotlight when it comes to the young generation of gamblers....they want non-stop action and don't want to wait 30 minutes between races...Also, Poker is easier to understand for them and they see that as a huge comfortable....horse racing is such a hard sport to learn from a gaming standpoint and that is alos a deterent...there is just so much info and unknowns, and if you are not passionate to learn about it then you won't....the younger generation of gamblers aren't patient enough...they want to have action all the time with something they understand....

This game has a mountain of challenges, and unfortunately, it is just setup to derail itself in a lot of ways....

Here is my idea:

I have thought for years now that some track should attempt to run all of it's 9-10 races on a particular card in 2-2 1/2 hours so that they could shorten it up and treat it like a sporting event like going to a football game....people just don't have all day to sit around an OTB anymore or go to the races for 6 hours on a given afternoon....

You could have action going all the time....when it is 20 minutes to post for the 1st race it is 25 minutes to post for the 2nd and 30 minutes to post for the 3rd...then you take a small intermission to allow people to eat and use the rest room for 30 minutes and then start with the next 3 races in the same fashion and then have another short intermission and then finish strong with the last 3 races of the day and then the card is over for the day (you will have certain setbacks when horses breakdown, etc. that would delay time a little)..

I'm sure there would be opperational issues to iron out...you'd need two or three paddocks, you'd probably have to alternate between the garss and dirt courses each race so the other could get serviced while the other was racing, etc., you may need multiple gate crews and track crews (maybe), and I'm not sure if the jockeys would go for having to race three times in 15-20 minutes without much rest, but who knows...just thinking outside the box and throwing out ideas that could potentially help tracks save on-track attendance and handle...we need to make it more appealing to come to the track....the idea here would be to market going to the races like you would any other sporting event because essentially that is what you'd be doing...it would be like going to a football or basketball game time-wise and alos from the perspective that you would get non-stop action for the most part instead of having to wait for a half hour in between races (which is the biggest complaint I hear about attending teh races)...Also, the track would still get it's alotted amount of time to wager on all races without worrying about time to bet...you'd just teach the customer how to react and wager faster to get down and you would also have to bring the tellers to the bettors by foot or make it easiuer for them to wager so that they would not get shut out.....think about how cool it would be t bet a Pick 3 and be able to get the results from start to finish of three races in 15-20 minutes!!!...Pretty cool concept, huh?

I know this is 'out there' and really bucking tradition, but I really could see this working in certain markets.....it makes a lot of sense...

Anyway, I went off on a rant here, but I think about ways to improve this game ALL day long and it is a serious challenge...

[quote=Cunningham Racing]sounds good the tellers must attend a 6 month training course ..and none may be over the age of 40...lol

[quote=hoovesupsideyourhead]lol. At Calder, if you want to be a teller and are under the age of 70, both of your parents have to be working there already.

And if anyone doesn't think this isn't one of the big reasons for Del Mar, Saratoga and Keeneland being the only places to still get good attendance then they are kidding themselves.

100% right on, I met my wife at Keeneland, all of my buddies kept telling me to come to Keeneland, because of the great scenery. I hated horse racing back then, they told me I would have a good time, even if I hated the horses, so I went. Fell in love with the game back in 1998 and love it more every year. If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone.


Horses like everything else has become event driven, big days, try going to the Breeders Cup at Lone Star, I was wishing there were about 20,000 less fans there that day and I had decent seats...

Just my two pennies worth...
Hire the hooters girls as tellers.

[quote=SentToStud]Just to set the record straight...that was Hooves quote and not mine....:D

[quote=Cunningham Racing]To further the record, this is mine, not hooves....

I can promise you that I haven't seen very many men at the track that I would want to date, lol. Most of them smoke like chimneys, which is a big turn off to me, and many of them are older and come with their wives. I'm probably one of the view single women at the track.....

I don't have a problem with the time between races because I enjoy spending a day at the track - it's a nice day out for me and Belmont is so beautiful. It also gives me time to check out the horses in the paddock......I have a hard time identifying with gamblers and with those who want fast action; I root for a horse, not the number (it's never "go number 2" for me, it's "go Bernardini, go whomever"). Also, I loved horses since I was a young girl....lots of girls do. I rode, took lessons and just started liking racing. I figure Walter Farley's Black Stallion helped me become a racing fan....boy, those books were good. Anyone ever read them? I think you can make racing work for those who already love horses; for those who are just in it to win money, I think they are a lost cause. When I was younger, I used to be so embarrassed about liking horse racing, because it was supposed to be an old man's sport, not a young girl's. Now, I don't care who knows.

Absolutely correct, ateam. The average serious gambler won't even consider horseracing for one reason. The track take is so high. A poker player has to give $2-$4 of the pot to the house when he wins. That's just a few percent. A blackjack player can play within 1/2 % of the house by spending 2 hours learning basic strategy. If she is motivated, she can learn to count cards and actually play with an edge over the house. (even idiot blackjack players find it hard to play with worse than 3% against them. A craps player can also play within 1% of the house. A sportsbettor has to overcome at most a 4.5% "take". Compare that to horseracing's 14-20% takes. Most educated sportsbettors think horseplayers are idiots. (very few sportsbettors understand that the fact that many horseplayers ARE idiots makes the game beatable, despite the high track take)

As ateam suggests, any significant surge of new horseplayers will have to be fed by a surge of fan interest.

--Dunbar