correct, dissing would be the fact she's lucky Risen Star got a bad ride...lol

When both as a broodmare had a top earner around 500k and nothing else isn't dissing. Her top earner did have a decent earner in Japan sired by Sunday Silence.

are you kidding me? i loved that filly. i even bet her in the derby, with my friend telling me when she was 2 there was no way she'd lose the derby!

risen star, now that was an underated horse...........if he didnt get a hack job for a ride in the derby he would have won that race.

I think Rags to Riches grueling summer of races is bringing all kinds of new fans to the sport. I can't even remember what she looks like!! (this is in relation to the post that said Cigar brought many new fans to the sport!)

On the topic of Cigar, I think he is better than he is being given credit for than most on this thread. I think KG lists way too many on his list. To me the best thing a horse can do is race a lot and win a lot. Cigar did that and most others listed don't. To me that is like saying Kevin Kouzmanoff is the best player in major league baseball, because the first pitch he saw as a big leaguer last year he hit a grand slam home run. And that just isn't true stating he is the best. But how many hall of famers hit the first pitch they saw for a grand slam?? Just because Ghostzapper could roll out 120 plus Beyers at will does not make him better than Cigar in my opinion. Just faster. HE had more grade 1 wins than Ghostzapper had starts. Going back 30 years picking up Affirmed and Bid and others...no way is he the best. But 25 years there are not too many better in my opinion. Some of the late 80s ones like Alysheba, and EG..SS perhaps, but I'm not too sure. Easy Goer and Sunday Silence did nothing as older horses.

the only way Discreet Cat or Smarty Jones would beat Cigar in a 1 1/4m race is if Discreet Cat ran the first 5 furlongs and Smarty Jones ran the last 5 furlongs

I'm too new to know for sure. But I'm wondering if I'll ever see one better than Ghostzapper.

i'd be happier if i saw horses more durable than him. but when you read about half ours retiring after his abbreviated career, you have to wonder....

hey dude, how come i cant see your avatar?

I think Smarty was a better horse than Cigar.

as much as i like smarty - maybe at 7f or a mile... but cigar had that burst of speed at the 3/8 pole that just inhaled the field when he went 9-10f.




oh, and charlie.. the avatar is clear as a bell.. a naked blonde, don't know why YOU can't see it

Based on what I think was their ability levels, not accomplishments. Had they run as many times as Cigar did, I think they would have accomplished quite a bit more than they did. I was only listing them according to what I thought each horse was capable of at his best. I thought Cigar's best attribute was his consistency, not his brilliance.

This is what makes all these comparisons difficult. How can anyone really compare two horses like say..........Ghostzapper and John Henry and determine who was "better"? One guy could point to speed figs and overall winning percentage in races and conclude that Ghostzapper was CLEARLY better. Another could look at number of G1 races won and decide that John Henry was far and away a better horse. Which one is right? It all depends. Personally I would rate John Henry higher than Ghostzapper because he accomplished a lot more. But if the two were to square off in a race on the dirt, I would pick Ghostzapper. It almost seems like this question of who is the "best" is actually two different questions merged into one.
1) Who accomplished the most?
2) Who would win if they all met in a race?

And bernardini was better than Smarty.

Bernardini folded like a tent the first time a horse looked him in the eye! Alysheba was right about Risen Star although I don't blame Eddie D for that ride, the trainer (sic) and his big-mouth owner instructed Eddie to fall back out of the number one hole despite the fact that all the speed (including Winning Colors) drew outside...he was left with more than any horse could possibly do turning for home yet rallied bravely for third...had he been used early to gain a forward stalking position, we'd have 12 Triple Crown winners now! Risen Star was a great horse, Secretariat's best and that says a lot with the inclusion of "The Iron Lady"!

i wouldn't say he folded either.
but i also wouldn't say that bernardini was better than smarty.

I thought Cigar's B/C Classic win was pretty damn brilliant...

agreed on Smarty over Bernardini. the best comment on Smarty I have ever heard was that "Smarty Jones was a freak that could run fast and far, and both at the same time..."

That being said, give me all of the past B/C Classic winners at Belmont Park for one 1 1/4 race and I'll take Cigar...