You were right Phil, Dynaforce ran poorly yesterday. The only consolation for me was she was 14/1 overlay.

Visit ran well before patently failing for stamina.

I thought the second and third in the 'Ladies Classic' are classified as Euros (for all they've never been to the continent in their lives!).

Agreed Sealy Hill ran a knocked up race, we discussed prior to the race that almost anyone in the field with the exception of Pure Clan could win this race. Saying that she was a big surprise.

Pure Clan, much like the winner, ran to her pps.

I wonder how she would have done in the QE II.

I was wrong on two counts Euros-cal horses
 

I should have said I favor horses who have ran in cal and done well, also I might eat crow on euros today. I find them hard to handicap so I don't like them and haven't seen them run. I apologize if I ruffled some feathers, I was wrong and should have kept my trap shut on Euros I know nothing about.

Andy, How's the weather shaping up today down there? Any chance of things staying on the turf?

We haven't had rain in nearly a month and it is closing weekend.

I expect we will be on the turf....plus it really hasn't rained yet.

I had WAW on some P3 tickets, but come on guys, the winner was just better.

i'm a wait awhile fan and she was second best today. no question. forever together ran a nice race, it was her day.:tro:

I'm sorry, due to the inane postings from some around here lately i am never quite sure anymore. I mean a guy who actually has half a clue thinks wait a while ran a far better race that Forever together...

I'm sorry but Sealy Hill was second best yesterday, yes she had a great trip but she was second last heading into the stretch to only narrowly miss. She closed into slow fractions, I don't know what Jerry Bailey was watching but his analysis that there was a honest pace was an error in my mind. If anything Wait A While's stalking trip was more beneficial to Forever Together and Sealy Hill's runs. Though Wait A While is still a very nice horse, I don't think she is as dominant as she was in her 3 yr old season, It's not like Pletcher's are running a hole in the wind this yr.

So we have a race where the winner, the 2nd horse, and the 4th horse were, respectively, 7th, 8th, and 9th, in a 10 horse field, with the 10th horse badly outrun, YET, the consensus is that the only horse that ran early and finished with them GOT A BETTER SETUP.:rolleyes:

The winner got the best setup of the top 4, as she RAN LAST. In other words, AFTER WaW had made her wide bid on the turn, AFTER Visit, who was behind FT to the turn, made that sharp move INTO the fastest fractions, and AFTER SH, who was also behind the winner, made her run.

As for Sealy Hill, I used her last out in exactas with Callwood Dancer, as they both had ridiculous trips in the Canadian S. She wasn't a mystery, she just happened to make the 2nd to last run in a race that fell apart. In fact, if she had a clear run, like the winner, she's probably a lot closer.

ground was too firm for her. i said in a selections thread that she wouldn't like it.

Even before the race I didn't like the 2 pace setters Folk Opera and Halfway to Heaven, a comment by O'Brien I thought was very curious as he said before the race she had gotten 3 excellent & cagey rides in her 3 wire to wire wins in gr.1 co. indicated to me her form is somewhat dressed up, and her odds in those races would seem to say this. Folk Opera had a ridiculous trip in her last and really hasn't been much more than a gr.2 filly in europe this yr. I don't think too much can be read that these 2 fillies faded, I will say this Wait A While looked like the winner sitting 3rd after watching the 2 leaders duel, yes she was a bit wide but Forever Together was wide also. Wait A While just didn't kick on, and that seems like the norm for some of Todd's horses this year.

I'm not going to make any excuses, it was dissapointing. I did think she could be closer to the pace. But who knows, her race in the Diana was on firm ground I might add.

not making an excuse for her, turfers can be pretty picky about their ground. i think a lot of people tend to ignore whether it was firm, good etc. and my pps show the diana was on good. the new yorker was on firm-but i don't know that a firm belmont surface is = to a firm santa anita surface. and a good sara to me would not equate to a good santa anita surface. i read somewhere that firm on all tracks isn't necessarily interchangable. it's why i took a stand against her.

yeah, but bailey is an idiot. i wish they'd take his yellow arrows away.

Disagree- WaW ran her race, and wasn't good enough. She ran well, Johnny V maybe moved a little early but Forever Together would have mowed her down either way- Leparoux really never asked her for her best. Whether she was better than Sealy Hill is certainly debatable, although the run Sealy Hill put in when clear was impressive.

The pace was moderate but it was destructive because it was pretty contested. Then again, the Euro shipper was coming out of a frontrunning mile race so it's no real shocker she packed it in at the quarter pole...

You are correct the form did list The Diana as good that day, which is why I look at the final times and not just listings, I find the rating of turf courses very subjective. Let's agree that the final time of 1:46 and change for 1 1/8 indicates there was not much cut in the ground that day.

It seems we need to rehash this. Does FT WIN if she makes the 1st move with WaW and Visit? Does FT win if she moves when SH did? Probably not as the 'pace' at that point was pretty hot.

My point here is not that WaW is better than the winner (in general) but rather that if she gets a decent trip, in this case, doesn't move EARLY, she's in position to withstand the closers. By waiting and forcing the OTHER closers (other than Visit) to move with/before her she dulls their kick. A more patient jock gets her this trip.

Not putting this on you, but why is this so difficult to understand? The winner is a very nice horse, certainly the best in the race (though before yesterday, her ability to get 10F was in question) but she also got a very nice trip, having the benefit of running AFTER everyone else. This was a 'flow' race: moving too soon spelled doom for WaW and Visit and, to a lesser extent SH. Would think that this would be evident to some others as well.