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-   -   Privman: Let the Horse of the Year Debate Begin (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39383)

Sightseek 11-09-2010 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721279)
My point exactly that he has problems. I could not ignore him if I tryed? Are we married? Last I checked, he has a man and family.
Its sad... Anyway back to HOY, IC who you got?

He's gay? I did not know!

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek (Post 721285)
He's gay? I did not know!

I meant woman, family...
Simple misprint.

Indian Charlie 11-09-2010 09:05 PM

Who would I vote for HOY?

Indian Charlie, of course.

I am obsessed!

Dahoss 11-09-2010 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek (Post 721285)
He's gay? I did not know!

:rolleyes:

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 721288)
Who would I vote for HOY?

Indian Charlie, of course.

I am obsessed!


You wanna do that thing now, I have about 14 min before I pass out. Gotta work 6am-11pm tomorrow.

Indian Charlie 11-09-2010 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 721283)
Trust me. You should see some of the pm's he has sent me. The dude has a serious man crush.

I think he's a bit OCD.

Indian Charlie 11-09-2010 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721291)
You wanna do that thing now, I have about 14 min before I pass out. Gotta work 6am-11pm tomorrow.

Man, you are one serious numbnut.

I wrote you detailed instructions on what you need to do next. You haven't done it.

So, that is that.

The Indomitable DrugS 11-09-2010 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 721198)
I don't know how to change it, but not giving the most deserving horse an award he deserves isn't the way.

Let me ask you this - how much of a curve do you grade on when grading a mare against an older male?

I think if you're ultimately grading these horses on accomplishments, quality of performance and difficulty of campaign... Blame will have a slight but very clear edge over Zenyatta. You're grading an older male against a mare though .. so it really boils down to what kind of a curve you're grading on - or if you're applying the curve in your grading at all.

No one was louder than I was about how soft Zenyatta's campaign has been - and how soft her Grade 1 wins have been - but she is a mare. I think that fact is getting lost on a few of the smarter people around here. Just as the fact that Rachel Alexandra was a 3-year-old filly last year .. and Zenyatta was a mare .. seemed to get lost on a lot of people last year.

The fact that RA was a 3yo filly - actually should have made her a unanimous winner - taking every single vote in 2009 IMO.

If you're not going to apply a curve - a 2-year-old will never win this award. A 3-year-old filly will almost never win this award. And a mare will almost never win this award.

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 721295)
Man, you are one serious numbnut.

I wrote you detailed instructions on what you need to do next. You haven't done it.

So, that is that.


Um no, I did it at 2pm.

Sightseek 11-09-2010 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 721289)
:rolleyes:

Oh please stop, you're breaking my heart.

Indian Charlie 11-09-2010 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721297)
Um no, I did it at 2pm.

No you didn't.

The folder in question in Dropbox is still indicating that the share with you is still pending.

Ugh.

What is it with people and computers?

Today at my shop I had this 400lb dude come in saying that his father sat on his laptop. He wanted to know how much to fix the screen. My only thoughts ran along the lines of "if he's built like you are, I'd be more worried about the guts of that laptop surviving".

Not an hour later, this young couple comes in that had been in about a month ago wanting us to fix their laptop screen. Their screen the first time was shattered and when we asked what happened, they said the screen had been 'struck'.

Today, they bring in a brand spanking new laptop that they paid about $800 for at Walmart. Yep, broken screen. This time it was due to a 'fall' off of the second story balcony. I was like, "uhhh, yeahhhhhhhh". Needless to say, that thing was seriously fugged.

The only things that made it bearable was the ridiculousness of the situation, and the girl's low cut shirt showing off her rather nice cleavage.

Oh yeah, they are probably going to end up buying the first laptop back from us!

Dahoss 11-09-2010 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 721296)
Let me ask you this - how much a curve do you grade on when grading a mare against an older male?

I think if you're ultimately grading these horses on accomplishments, quality of performance and difficulty of campaign... Blame will have a slight but very clear edge over Zenyatta. You're grading an older male against a mare though .. so it really boils down to what kind of a curve you're grading on - or if you're applying the curve in your grading at all.

No one was louder than I was about how soft Zenyatta's campaign has been - and how soft her Grade 1 wins have been - but she is a mare. I think that fact is getting lost on a few of the smarter people around here. Just as the fact that Rachel Alexandra was a 3-year-old filly last year .. and Zenyatta was a mare .. seemed to get lost on a lot of people last year.

The fact that RA was a 3yo filly - actually should have made her a unanimous winner - taking every single vote in 2009 IMO.

If you're not going to apply a curve - a 2-year-old will never win this award. A 3-year-old filly will almost never win this award. And a mare will almost never win this award.

Are you talking about when I handicap, or for this discussion?

As we have seen in recent years, I don't think the gap is big at all, if it even exists between some of the better males and females in this country. I get what you are saying about her being a mare. But she's a pretty good mare and definitely good enough to be facing boys because she was that much better than those she faced out west. This is commonplace in Europe and really no reason it can't be here.

My understanding of HOY is horse that had the best year. I factor in what races they won, who they beat and how that compared to other horses. Had Zenyatta run in one other race against males this year, I think she would be a pretty solid favorite for HOY, even with the narrow defeat in the BC. But, her connections rolled the dice and she didn't win the race. She ran really well, but just fell short. That compared with the fact Blame beat her and had a pretty decent (by todays standards) year of his own means IMO he should win and win convincingly.

Scav 11-09-2010 09:23 PM

I can't remember but did Azeri clearly have the best year when she won HOY? Wasn't there someone else that was pretty good that year and people bitched and moan about her winning it. I can't remember if she won it the year she got drilled in the Classic or not.

Dahoss 11-09-2010 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek (Post 721298)
Oh please stop, you're breaking my heart.

Your TDT card has been revoked.

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:24 PM

I did it. I am computer savvy. My touch was recently bricked. I manually fixed it, jailbroke it and downloaded/downgraded iTunes from 4.1 to 3.0. Genius Status.

Dahoss 11-09-2010 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav (Post 721312)
I can't remember but did Azeri clearly have the best year when she won HOY? Wasn't there someone else that was pretty good that year and people bitched and moan about her winning it. I can't remember if she won it the year she got drilled in the Classic or not.

She never beat males, but she was so dominant. Left Bank won older horse, but he was dead by August and only had one two turn win. 3 year old champ was War Emblem, but he didn't really deserve it. It was a weird year. Volponi romped in the Classic which really threw everything off.

Indian Charlie 11-09-2010 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721316)
I did it. I am computer savvy. My touch was recently bricked. I manually fixed it, jailbroke it and downloaded/downgraded iTunes from 4.1 to 3.0. Genius Status.

The fact that you use an Apple product, and worse, you use their shittyass iTunes, tells me you are a tech idiot.

No offense to any other iPoD UseRs out there intended.

Indian Charlie 11-09-2010 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721316)
I did it. I am computer savvy. My touch was recently bricked. I manually fixed it, jailbroke it and downloaded/downgraded iTunes from 4.1 to 3.0. Genius Status.

You have not accepted the folder share numbnut.

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 721336)
The fact that you use an Apple product, and worse, you use their shittyass iTunes, tells me you are a tech idiot.

No offense to any other iPoD UseRs out there intended.



Explain.... I won the touch, brand new in box in a Madden Tourny about 18 months ago.

Sightseek 11-09-2010 09:33 PM

How did Medaglia d'Oro not get 3 year old honors?

Scav 11-09-2010 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721340)
Explain.... I won the touch, brand new in box in a Madden Tourny about 18 months ago.

A Madden tourney? OMFG

prudery 11-09-2010 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 721244)
Actually Blind Luck couldn't run in ANY RACE Zenyatta ran in. As a 3 year old, she wasn't eligible for the Santa Margarita or Apple Blossom.

Yes she could have.

The Clement Hirsch and the Lady's Secret are both for three and up .

Hollendorfer opted to ship her to the Cotillion and pick up weight to avoid taking on Zenyatta and said so.

Dahoss 11-09-2010 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prudery (Post 721351)
Yes she could have.

The Clement Hirsch and the Lady's Secret are both for three and up .

Hollendorfer opted to ship her to the Cotillion and pick up weight to avoid taking on Zenyatta and said so.

I realize that. Read the post I was responding to. He said ANY RACE. Well obviously she wasn't eligible for any race. She was eligible for the Vanity also. Just not the first two.

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav (Post 721348)
A Madden tourney? OMFG


If you knew about the cash money I walked out of some spots with. This black dude was into me for $1800 last year, madden I owe you's paid every cent.

Scav 11-09-2010 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721359)
If you knew about the cash money I walked out of some spots with. This black dude was into me for $1800 last year, madden I owe you's paid every cent.

you are kinda like Pat Summerall

Indian Charlie 11-09-2010 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721359)
If you knew about the cash money I walked out of some spots with. This black dude was into me for $1800 last year, madden I owe you's paid every cent.

Yeah, you gotta really watch those black dudes that owe you 1800.


Great, now my freaking power is out.

This day is just getting more retarded by the hour/post.

Dahoss 11-09-2010 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek (Post 721341)
How did Medaglia d'Oro not get 3 year old honors?

He was a lot better than War Emblem but if you look at just wins that year, I can see how War Emblem got it. Ill. Derby, KY Derby, Preakness and Haskell looks better than San Felipe, Jim Dandy and Travers. When you look at Medaglia's places in the Wood, Belmont and BC Classic he looks a lot better though.

Flawed system.

prudery 11-09-2010 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 721353)
I realize that. Read the post I was responding to. He said ANY RACE. Well obviously she wasn't eligible for any race. She was eligible for the Vanity also. Just not the first two.

I guess I didn't go back far enough and missed the dynamic of the discourse .

She was also eligible obviously for the BCC .

Claro---just not the first two .

The Indomitable DrugS 11-09-2010 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav (Post 721312)
I can't remember but did Azeri clearly have the best year when she won HOY? Wasn't there someone else that was pretty good that year and people bitched and moan about her winning it. I can't remember if she won it the year she got drilled in the Classic or not.

Rock of Gibralter got something like 7 votes for Horse of the Year that year - and he didn't even win the BC Mile in his only lone North American start.

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav (Post 721364)
you are kinda like Pat Summerall

Im not even allowed back to 2 local spots. 1 in Albany that I got hooked up through a poker game, more of poker w/ Madden. Same thing in Ballston Spa, Poker w/ madden. I talk so much **** when Im winning they dont want me back.
I always win, I will play my back up quarterback, I sub him in and take a knee with him. I say, I gotta let these little digital back up's get some burn, they part of the team. Its classic in person, when I actually pause the game and go from Aaron Rodgers to Matt Flynn. Do you know how mad people get when your up 21-3, your defense is amazing... The entire game they are hearing NON STOP **** TALKING, IM THIS GOOD I CAN ONLY BEAT MYSELF.... There $100 or $200 is up in front of the flat screen, and Im pausing the game, delaying the inevitable to put my back up's in. What a feeling...

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prudery (Post 721370)
I guess I didn't go back far enough and missed the dynamic of the discourse .

She was also eligible obviously for the BCC .

Claro---just not the first two .

When I said any, I also meant from summer on. Clearly 3yr old wont step up in April-May when the Oaks is the goal.

Scav 11-09-2010 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721374)
When I said any, I also meant from summer on. Clearly 3yr old wont step up in April-May when the Oaks is the goal.

I just got melted Crunch bar all over my Churchill Friday PP's, how hot does that make you?

Scav 11-09-2010 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 721371)
Rock of Gibralter got something like 7 votes for Horse of the Year that year - and he didn't even win the BC Mile in his only lone North American start.

If that was the year he ran at Arlington and Landseer broke down, his run in that race was singlely the most impressive close I have ever seen. Matter fact, gonna go watch it again right now

MaTH716 11-09-2010 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav (Post 721378)
If that was the year he ran at Arlington and Landseer broke down, his run in that race was singlely the most impressive close I have ever seen. Matter fact, gonna go watch it again right now

Instead of watching the race, how bout coming up with a timeline for your little jaunt to Toronto. Or is it a straight to dvd release?

The Indomitable DrugS 11-09-2010 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav (Post 721378)
If that was the year he ran at Arlington and Islington broke down, his run in that race was singlely the most impressive close I have ever seen. Matter fact, gonna go watch it again right now

It was impressive - I think it was Landseer who broke down though.

Street Cry was the best older male that year - and would have had no trouble beating Azeri.

http://www1.drf.com/eclipse/2002/pps/om.pdf


Well - he was the best older male who wasn't juiced to the gills anyway.

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 721384)
It was impressive - I think it was Landseer who broke down though.

Street Cry was the best older male that year - and would have had no trouble beating Azeri.

http://www1.drf.com/eclipse/2002/pps/om.pdf


Well - he was the best older male who wasn't juiced to the gills anyway.

I had my uncle bet Street Cry for me in the Foster... It was one of my first BIGGER BETS. I remember telling him, this horse should be 1-5 and he was 2-1. Talented, finding overlays at 16.

MaTH716 11-09-2010 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 721387)
I had my uncle bet Street Cry for me in the Foster... It was one of my first BIGGER BETS. I remember telling him, this horse should be 1-5 and he was 2-1. Talented, finding overlays at 16.

Were you as astute with your NBA plays back then as well?

Sightseek 11-09-2010 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 721384)
It was impressive - I think it was Landseer who broke down though.

Street Cry was the best older male that year - and would have had no trouble beating Azeri.

http://www1.drf.com/eclipse/2002/pps/om.pdf


Well - he was the best older male who wasn't juiced to the gills anyway.

What a monster stable Frankel had that year.

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2010 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 721389)
Were you as astute with your NBA plays back then as well?

I'm done for a while. Honestly.

Scav 11-09-2010 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 721383)
Instead of watching the race, how bout coming up with a timeline for your little jaunt to Toronto. Or is it a straight to dvd release?

Nah, kinda over those recaps, was a good time and want to go back in the summer when turf racing is going on, nothing crazy happened since I was with my dad and his friends most of the trip, I'm in a little bit of a tiff with my group of frends now and they stayed in the city and I never went and partied with them.

I will say that I was pretty impressed with my old man(56 I think) and his friends, they stayed up till 2am one of the nights playing poker in the hotel lobby, wasn't sure they had the stamina to stay up that late anymore, I was sound asleep at like midnight after being drained from a full day of horse playing.

I chalked it up to them being old and not having freedom anymore and I guess they figured they had to take advantage of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS (Post 721384)
It was impressive - I think it was Landseer who broke down though.

Street Cry was the best older male that year - and would have had no trouble beating Azeri.

http://www1.drf.com/eclipse/2002/pps/om.pdf


Well - he was the best older male who wasn't juiced to the gills anyway.

Yeah, I corrected it when I was 10 seconds in about who broke down. Just watched Storm Flag Flying's race also, that was a good race also.


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