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ateamstupid 09-10-2008 08:00 PM

All i know is the 7th is impossible..

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-10-2008 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
She's not a dropper. I think she has to be used, even with the layoff, but I'd be wary about singling her. There are a couple of decent fillies in here (Oniyome, Casey's Tribe) and doubt she's going to an easy lead with Silvercup Baby and Aegean Breeze in the race.

yep your right this is one tough card to me..id have no problem singling in the 4th 7 coranation day..adds the blinks ..the main rival saratoga steve has proven he cant do it..yet.the 2 horse is troubling..but..hes o-27..the brown horse pp3 is the only other one i think has a shot..

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-10-2008 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
yep your right this is one tough card to me..id have no problem singling in the 4th 7 coranation day..adds the blinks ..the main rival saratoga steve has proven he cant do it..yet.the 2 horse is troubling..but..hes o-27..the brown horse pp3 is the only other one i think has a shot..

bigs gpk all well, what do you see for a single?

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-10-2008 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
All i know is the 7th is impossible..

joey see who classick impact ran 2nd to 1 back...

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 08:39 PM

Isn't there a horse in the 7th that has run at least decently against significantly better company?

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-10-2008 08:48 PM

the 7 has that as far as i can tell /the 3 used to

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 08:50 PM

So what's wrong with Millenium Jet then?

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 08:58 PM

And, let me add, I think watching the replay of his last race is a good idea.

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-10-2008 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
So what's wrong with Millenium Jet then?

nothing really..if the 2 decides to like the turf..he can go and make such a lead that he wont get caught..the 3 has great trainer moves the 6 can press and get lucky.the 10 also ..tough race..

the_fat_man 09-10-2008 09:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
And, let me add, I think watching the replay of his last race is a good idea.

Complicating matters is that his chart running line (the penultimate call) is probably wrong. But I wonder why you like a horse that just couldn't finish well in a race where no less than 6 horses were gaining significantly in the last call of a race that just barely missed completely falling apart?

And, Luzzi is at the top of my list of jocks I won't bet unless they're guaranteed an "idiot proof" trip.

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man
Complicating matters is that his chart running line (the penultimate call) is probably wrong. But I wonder why you like a horse that just couldn't finish well in a race where no less than 6 horses were gaining significantly in the last call of a race that just barely missed completely falling apart?

And, Luzzi is at the top of my list of jocks I won't bet unless they're guaranteed an "idiot proof" trip.


I completely agree that the race four back complicates matters for me. I can't argue with you if you suggest that day was the ultimate test for him in that it was a race he was handed ( his loss that day cost me the Pick-6 ) and couldn't win. However, isn't it fair to say that he has improved a bit since then? I can see that he has had reasonably soft trips in his two and three back races but weren't those significantly better fields than this one?

His 1 for 14 record is theoretically a problem but the rest are right there with him and I can't make a case for any of them. I can make a mild case for a bunch of them.....but I still think Millenium Jet may be better.

the_fat_man 09-10-2008 09:46 PM

I don't know what to do in this race. Turf claimers (excluding maidens) are the most difficult race to handicap for me.

If I get something >= the morning line, I'm going to bet Monsooned Malabar. He's 1 for 15 lifetime and 0 for 6 on the turf, stretching out (which I don't typically like) and even though he's breaking from the 4 hole, he's almost guaranteed a WIDE trip with Johnny V

HOWEVER

his last race was the most impressive of any horse in the race. He went against race dynamics, was extremely wide throughout, and finished absolutely FULL Of RUN.

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man
I don't know what to do in this race. Turf claimers (excluding maidens) are the most difficult race to handicap for me.

If I get something >= the morning line, I'm going to bet Monsooned Malabar. He's 1 for 15 lifetime and 0 for 6 on the turf, stretching out (which I don't typically like) and even though he's breaking from the 4 hole, he's almost guaranteed a WIDE trip with Johnny V

HOWEVER

his last race was the most impressive of any horse in the race. He went against race dynamics, was extremely wide throughout, and finished absolutely FULL Of RUN.


I agree....but here's the problem......it was a 5 1/2 Furlong race that he was cutting back to and had no chance to win ( based on race dynamics ) so of course he put in a major late ( but obviously ineffectual ) run. How could he not? Millenium Jet would have as well. All he really did was run strongly for a furlong.

the_fat_man 09-10-2008 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
I agree....but here's the problem......it was a 5 1/2 Furlong race that he was cutting back to and had no chance to win ( based on race dynamics ) so of course he put in a major late ( but obviously ineffectual ) run. How could he not? Millenium Jet would have as well. All he really did was run strongly for a furlong.

That's what makes the game so difficult --especially the way we play it.

I typically don't play horses like this, as I agree with most of your points.

However, in a race where the top 4 finishers ran essentially EVENLY all around the track, he was the only horse to pass, and pass significantly.

Suffice to say, there are easier spots than this race.

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man
That's what makes the game so difficult --especially the way we play it.

I typically don't play horses like this, as I agree with most of your points.

However, in a race where the top 4 finishers ran essentially EVENLY all around the track, he was the only horse to pass, and pass significantly.

Suffice to say, there are easier spots than this race.


And here are more problems with him.....

How do you explain him being outfinished by EZ Dollar two back? Even if you equalize the trips the best he did was run a similar race.

Then there's the fact that this is his 4th race in 26 days....and third in 17 days. And, this follows three races in a 20 day span, which preceded his long 15 day layoff. I'm not saying I know what to make of this but it feels like a bit of a concern.

Treacherous race.

the_fat_man 09-10-2008 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
And here are more problems with him.....

How do you explain him being outfinished by EZ Dollar two back? Even if you equalize the trips the best he did was run a similar race.

Then there's the fact that this is his 4th race in 26 days....and third in 17 days. And, this follows three races in a 20 day span, which preceded his long 15 day layoff. I'm not saying I know what to make of this but it feels like a bit of a concern.

Treacherous race.

And E Z Dollar gets a HUGE jockey change.

No doubt you raise very good points. Between this one and Contessa's (other) runner in the 5th, Debbie's Fast Girl, with that very deceiving ground saving inside trip and COLLAPSE (it's relative given the sub 23 last split), while being absolutely beaten to death, there is MUCHO mind numbing material.

pick4 09-10-2008 10:20 PM

The 7th race looks like it could have a decent pace.
Cool Tales should contest the pace. Frenchman's Cove is adding blinkers and adding Coa so I would expect him to be near the front. Plus Another Gulch has shown speed but I think he has the quickness to keep up with the other two but that might not keep him from trying. I think a horse sitting 5 lengths or so early can close and win this race.

Since these are non winners of 2 lifetime the pickings are slim but I think you should take a look at Monsooned Malibar and E Z Dollar. Monsooned Malibar usually closes and either breaks poorly or is wide or gets into traffic. E Z Dollar has shown that he is a grass horse and fits with theses horses. His sprints were OK and he showed can pass horses. Those turf sprint races were a huge upgrade from his dreadful dirt races. His last race he saved ground early and was wide coming into the stretch. He made up ground and ran a good third. I see that Hertler switches to Kent D. Kent has not been riding as well as he was last year. However he has given a lot of horses good rides on the Belmont lawn. I like that E Z Dollar can sit behind horses and close in decent fractions. The jockey switch from the 7 pound bug boy to Kent D indicates the trainer wants a pro who can ride a horse of the Belmont Widener turf course.

I think E Z Dollar is worth a win bet but I will add Monsooned Malibar in multis.

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 10:21 PM

It is a huge switch and maybe what he really wanted to do was stretch out on the turf. However, even given the switch, how can he get a better trip than he did last time. Other than Cruz-Berrios's silly windmill whipping he road this horse perfectly last time.

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pick4
The jockey switch from the 7 pound bug boy to Kent D indicates the trainer wants a pro who can ride a horse of the Belmont Widener turf course.


Actually, it shows that nobody would ride the horse last time but after that performance he was able to get a more accomplished rider.

Not saying the horse can't win....but my scenerio is very likely closer to reality.

pick4 09-10-2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Actually, it shows that nobody would ride the horse last time but after that performance he was able to get a more accomplished rider.

Not saying the horse can't win....but my scenerio is very likely closer to reality.

You might be right about Millennium Jet as he's facing a weak bunch. I just have a feeling E Z Dollar is going to run a good race. Reality is less than 17 hours away and since it is leg two of the pick four hopefully the winner of the race was just mentioned in this post.

ateamstupid 09-10-2008 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
So what's wrong with Millenium Jet then?

I actually agree with you, his last two races were good considering circumstances and if I had to pick one horse, it'd probably be him. I just would hate to be leaning on a horse that's still winless on the grass after 11 tries.

blackthroatedwind 09-11-2008 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
I actually agree with you, his last two races were good considering circumstances and if I had to pick one horse, it'd probably be him. I just would hate to be leaning on a horse that's still winless on the grass after 11 tries.


I don't disagree. If I played the Pick-6 for reasonably small money, as I think it's somewhat managable, I would single him. However, I don't trust him either. He's got a little of that fool's gold feel to him.

GPK 09-11-2008 06:28 AM

How come noone has mentioned Munition? I'm willing to toss the last 2 races (his last was first off a 8 month layoff and his prior was over the Aqu Inner) and prior to those he has run a few races good enough to compete with these.

This race is beyond dreadful.

blackthroatedwind 09-11-2008 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK
How come noone has mentioned Munition? I'm willing to toss the last 2 races (his last was first off a 8 month layoff and his prior was over the Aqu Inner) and prior to those he has run a few races good enough to compete with these.

This race is beyond dreadful.

I thought he was a little interesting as well and actually picked him second for today's show.

GPK 09-11-2008 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
I thought he was a little interesting as well and actually picked him second for today's show.


I'm not a huge fan of Saymn, but in a field like this, anything near the 15-1ML makes him very playable.

GPK 09-11-2008 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
joey see who classick impact ran 2nd to 1 back...


Matt....Kettle Two couldn't have gotten a better trip yesterday. Once Edgar tipped out on Cardinal Hill, the rail opened right up for Channing and took advantage. I needed Triple Bogey Blues for a nice score yesterday. As a matter of fact, both of Channing's wins yesterday cost me big time. Corny on Estimator was sitting on alot of horse behind a wall of horses with nowhere to go but widest of all...and then to lose by 1/2 neck:wf

GPK 09-11-2008 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
no love for the 6 classic campain..his race 1 back vs yesterdays winner of the 8th was strong a positive jock sw to me and a cutback in dist..the 7 has its faults as does most of these..

read post above this one.

GPK 09-11-2008 08:03 AM

Matt, I think we also need to take into consideration that even though Classic Impact ran 2nd to Kettle Two 2 races back, he also ran a few lengths behind Dos Hombres in his last race. Dos Hombres was in the same race yesterday as Kettle Two...and he showed very little life.

I would be more open to Classic Impact if he had shown more than just one decent race on the grass. And even then I hesitate to call that race decent as he mainly took advantage of two long shots setting decent fractions for them to run at. If I am not mistaken, the top 3 finishers from that race were last, 8th and 2nd to last at the first call.

blackthroatedwind 09-11-2008 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
no love for the 6 classic campain..his race 1 back vs yesterdays winner of the 8th was strong a positive jock sw to me and a cutback in dist..the 7 has its faults as does most of these..


If Classic Campaign was in this race I would definitely single him ( assuming he was somehow made eligible ).

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-11-2008 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK
Matt....Kettle Two couldn't have gotten a better trip yesterday. Once Edgar tipped out on Cardinal Hill, the rail opened right up for Channing and took advantage. I needed Triple Bogey Blues for a nice score yesterday. As a matter of fact, both of Channing's wins yesterday cost me big time. Corny on Estimator was sitting on alot of horse behind a wall of horses with nowhere to go but widest of all...and then to lose by 1/2 neck:wf

he did have a good trip .due to some nice planning on c hills part..imo..but he also had a nice burst of speed..and he takes the mount..in the end the 3/6/ and if no huge trouble andys 7 should be around.late

GPK 09-11-2008 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
he did have a good trip .due to some nice planning on c hills part..imo..but he also had a nice burst of speed..and he takes the mount..in the end the 3/6/ and if no huge trouble andys 7 should be around.late


Good luck Bro. Depending on scratches, the 9 horse looks to get most of my $$

philcski 09-11-2008 09:29 AM

I think the single in here is in the last race, Better than Swiss. Troubled start last time but rallied strongly, and the only one that seems to be on the same talent level is the hanger Sweet Bama Breeze.

hoovesupsideyourhead 09-11-2008 10:43 AM

you may be right phil..but id hate to get that far and be singled..as its happend to me before....the 7/3/ look good..the 8/6 look sneeky..good luck to all today

philcski 09-11-2008 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
you may be right phil..but id hate to get that far and be singled..as its happend to me before....the 7/3/ look good..the 8/6 look sneeky..good luck to all today

yeah it sucks singling the last, but its just as painful losing the first leg. haha

NoLuvForPletch 09-11-2008 11:03 AM

How has Frenchman's Cove not come up for a pick in the 7th?

I know the owners of EZ Dollar. He's not a very good horse. Don't live or die with him.

philcski 09-11-2008 11:16 AM

theoretical $2k play:
1,7/1,2,3,5,6/1,5,6/2,3,4,7,8,9,10/2,8/4
1,7/3,5,6/7,9/3,7,10/2,8/4
1,7/3,5,6/1,5,6/5,6/2,8/4
1,7/3,5,6/1,5,6/3,7,10/2,8/3,7
1,7/3,5,6/1,5,6/3,7,10/6,9,10/4

jms62 09-11-2008 11:18 AM

ditto

1,7,8 / 2,3,5 / 1,2,3,6 / 2,7,8,10 / 2,6,8 / 4,7 = 1728

NoLuvForPletch 09-11-2008 11:39 AM

My Real Play...can't afford 2K, so I won't fantasize

Race4 - 1
Race5 - 2/5
Race6 - 1/2/8
Race7 - 3/7
Race8 - 2/8
Race9 - 3/4/7

Good Luck All...

ateamstupid 09-11-2008 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
I think the single in here is in the last race, Better than Swiss. Troubled start last time but rallied strongly, and the only one that seems to be on the same talent level is the hanger Sweet Bama Breeze.

I like Better Than Swiss a lot as well, and considered singling her, but would probably use Intoxicatingbeauty in some capacity as well. She had no chance in her last after stumbling at the break and trailing behind a very average pace, but still ran on decently to be third. Better Than Swiss, though also having trouble at the start last out, at least had some pace to run into. BTS is my 'A', but I might make Intoxicatingbeauty a 'B'. Hopefully with the two snappy three-furlong breezes, Corny can keep her in striking distance today.


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