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-   -   The Michael Gill/Penn National Riders Saga (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33990)

ARyan 01-25-2010 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan
This thread is a bunch of misguided animal lovers not understanding two very fundamental things about horse racing.

1. The sport is all about money. Period. If there wasn't money to be won, hardly anyone would want to race horses. Only the already rich would be involved at all.

2. This is not a hobby. This is a business when you own the horses. Period. At the end of the month the owner can't tell the trainer, vet, dentist, etc that I shouldn't pay this month because I am a great person who didn't start my horse who has a slightly sore ankle. It doesn't work well, I've tried.

Gill is not the greatest person in the world, but he is running his stable like a business and if animal lovers don't like it, then don't support horse racing until they change all the rules to suit you. Period.

I've owned horses. It is a tough business in every aspect. Posting a bunch of crap about a guy or his practices (the same practices as many other but on a larger scale) is much easier.
So you don't care about the humans riding these horses at all? Interesting...

Also interesting to note that the Penn National Jockey Colony is the newest PETA Chapter of Pennsylvania.

ARyan 01-25-2010 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

2. This is not a hobby. This is a business when you own the horses. Period. At the end of the month the owner can't tell the trainer, vet, dentist, etc that I shouldn't pay this month because I am a great person who didn't start my horse who has a slightly sore ankle. It doesn't work well, I've tried.
This could possibly speak volumes about the type of person or at least the type of business person you are...

Sightseek 01-25-2010 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan
This thread is a bunch of misguided animal lovers not understanding two very fundamental things about horse racing.

1. The sport is all about money. Period. If there wasn't money to be won, hardly anyone would want to race horses. Only the already rich would be involved at all.

2. This is not a hobby. This is a business when you own the horses. Period. At the end of the month the owner can't tell the trainer, vet, dentist, etc that I shouldn't pay this month because I am a great person who didn't start my horse who has a slightly sore ankle. It doesn't work well, I've tried.

Gill is not the greatest person in the world, but he is running his stable like a business and if animal lovers don't like it, then don't support horse racing until they change all the rules to suit you. Period.

I've owned horses. It is a tough business in every aspect. Posting a bunch of crap about a guy or his practices (the same practices as many other but on a larger scale) is much easier.

I guess your business model has changed?

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...212#post594212

letswastemoney 01-25-2010 06:39 PM
Why would you start a horse that has a sore ankle??

Bigsmc 01-25-2010 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
I guess your business model has changed?

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...212#post594212
:tro:

Coach Pants 01-25-2010 06:39 PM
period.

At The End Of The Day.

Period.

It Is What It Is.

Period.

richard 01-25-2010 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan
This thread is a bunch of misguided animal lovers not understanding two very fundamental things about horse racing.

1. The sport is all about money. Period. If there wasn't money to be won, hardly anyone would want to race horses. Only the already rich would be involved at all.

2. This is not a hobby. This is a business when you own the horses. Period. At the end of the month the owner can't tell the trainer, vet, dentist, etc that I shouldn't pay this month because I am a great person who didn't start my horse who has a slightly sore ankle. It doesn't work well, I've tried.

Gill is not the greatest person in the world, but he is running his stable like a business and if animal lovers don't like it, then don't support horse racing until they change all the rules to suit you. Period.

I've owned horses. It is a tough business in every aspect. Posting a bunch of crap about a guy or his practices (the same practices as many other but on a larger scale) is much easier.
A totally unethical and immoral statement. I suggest you invest in inanimate objects such as Wall Street.

Thoroughbred Fan 01-25-2010 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
I guess your business model has changed?

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...212#post594212
It is what it is. Sometimes you start out with rose colored glasses. You learn the hard way when you go broke in the horse business. It all starts like a ray of sunshine, but then financial reality hits home.

Gill is operating like a business far more than I ever did. Which, is why I am now out of the horse racing business and he continues to make money.

I was in it for the fun. The financial aspect can take the fun out of a lot of fun things.

Bad luck hits everyone in the game. Gill has just learned to mitigate the risk through numbers.

Riot 01-25-2010 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
Sounds like the track vets, that are passing all of these horses, are doing a bang up job. :rolleyes:

Maybe if they step it up a bit, this would be a NON issue.
If a horse is (successfully) given something (like cobra venom injection on the farm before the horse ships in to race) to hide a lameness, the lameness is hidden.

How do you think the vet is supposed to identify that? :rolleyes:

I believe the article said they were looking into 'some' vets (probably those that vet Gill's horses). Not the track vets.

Arletta 01-25-2010 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan
It is what it is. Sometimes you start out with rose colored glasses. You learn the hard way when you go broke in the horse business. It all starts like a ray of sunshine, but then financial reality hits home.

Gill is operating like a business far more than I ever did. Which, is why I am now out of the horse racing business and he continues to make money.

I was in it for the fun. The financial aspect can take the fun out of a lot of fun things.

Bad luck hits everyone in the game. Gill has just learned to mitigate the risk through numbers.
You can still be part of a syndicate such as Dee Tee Stables for fun, and it doesn't cost much.

Arletta 01-25-2010 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by letswastemoney
Why would you start a horse that has a sore ankle??
Good Question...but unfortunately it's done all the time.

Riot 01-25-2010 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan
This thread is a bunch of misguided animal lovers not understanding two very fundamental things about horse racing.

1. The sport is all about money. Period. If there wasn't money to be won, hardly anyone would want to race horses. Only the already rich would be involved at all.

2. This is not a hobby. This is a business when you own the horses. Period. At the end of the month the owner can't tell the trainer, vet, dentist, etc that I shouldn't pay this month because I am a great person who didn't start my horse who has a slightly sore ankle. It doesn't work well, I've tried.
1. If you are not rich enough as an owner to race horses and not abuse them in an attempt to earn money, you don't need to be in the business.

2. If you think money trumps the lives of horses, you don't need to be in the business.

3. If you want to consciously abuse animals in the name of business, by racing them when they should not be raced, just to make money, you need to not be in the sport.

4. If "It doesn't work well, I've tried" is your excuse, that other people force you to abuse your own animals to make money to pay your bills, then you need not only to not be in the sport, you need a spine transplant.

5. If the above post defining "two fundamental things" is truely how you think of horses and horse racing, you need to not be in the sport.

The Indomitable DrugS 01-25-2010 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard
A totally unethical and immoral statement. I suggest you invest in inanimate objects such as Wall Street.
It was more a statement of truth and the obvious.

Right now ... Gill has an army of cheap cripples and it's all about winning races and having constant action without subjecting himself to losing a colossal fortune.

He's the Shiek Mohammed of the $5,000 claimer.

The difference is that one goes after the choicest broodmares, yearlings, 2yo's, and proven racing stock money can buy ... and couldn't care less how great a fortune he pisses away.

The other goes after the choicest low level claimers - horses who have shown or hint at ability but have big 'For Sale' signs on them - and likely aren't entered for a claiming tag of a few thousand dollars more because they have issues. He wants to roll the dice, do some vet work, and try to turn them around.

Riot 01-25-2010 08:51 PM
Get a grip on reality - all horses are expensive. From hunter-jumpers to QH halter to gaited horses.

If you can't afford to play in any sport or business based upon the performance of a live animal, as you don't have the financial werewithal to do it without compromising the animal, get out.

And that goes for people who breed show dogs, show cats, show cows, and show mice, too. The only difference is the $$$ invested.

Either you care what happens to the animals, or you don't. Saying you can't make money in "the horse business" without sacrificing the animal to the dollar is a lie that proves only what an unsuccessful businessperson one is.

Riot 01-25-2010 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
He's the Shiek Mohammed of the $5,000 claimer.
There is nothing wrong with the above as a business model, IMO, but one better realize that more dollars will be spent to keep their investment in safe racing condition when animals with performance-limiting chronic health problems and tenuous physical ability form your stable.

One can't ignore that care, and justify it by saying, "I'm playing at the cheap levels, so the animal care must be necessarily cheap, too". That's a cop out.

The Indomitable DrugS 01-25-2010 09:10 PM
It's not business. The guy just likes watching his horses win and wants as much action as possible.

I am skeptical that the horses he has in his barn are any worse off in his hands than they are in the hands of more than a few other barns at that track.

There are a whole lot of things to not like about Gill .... but he's so blown out of proportion it isn't even funny.

Honu 01-25-2010 09:47 PM
I would have to say its a pretty bold statement from riders that they dont want to ride this man's horses. I spent alot of years in the jock's room and I can tell you that we all knew who the trainers and horses were that could get you hurt and if we saw someone on one that had been ridden by someone else that knew the horse was bad we told each other to be carefull.
I know alot of people think riders are stupid but we know WHO the bad guys are with the bad horses.

Riot 01-25-2010 10:07 PM
Honu, have you ever seen jocks unite against one guy's stock like this before?

Honu 01-25-2010 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
Honu, have you ever seen jocks unite against one guy's stock like this before?

No I havent , that is why I think it is such a profound statement .

The Indomitable DrugS 01-25-2010 10:31 PM
I wonder what the immortal horsey board poster .. and sneaky great last decade move-up trainer Steve Krebs would have to say about this....


I'm guessing .....





Quote:
'Thanks for taken damaged notso goods from me for $25 G's SUCKER! LOL - hahahahaha. When they lose at 1/5 favorite for me they cant win for anyone. LOL

Scott Lake is Gods gift to training horses and maybe is god himself. Anyone who doesnt agree knows nuthing about horse racing. L8R'


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