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-   -   Big Brown has Quarter Crack (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22746)

Cajungator26 05-25-2008 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Boundry had terrible feet. I know firsthand because I once helped his blacksmith patch a quartercrack on his foot.
Thanks ... I was seriously asking because I didn't know. How often do you see quarter cracks in thoroughbreds nowadays, Chuck? Would you say it's more common or is Big Brown in the minority of the breed for having these sorts of hoof problems?

Strategic Mission 05-25-2008 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I first heard about this last night but simply didn't know if it was true so i didn't post.

First of all a quarter crack can be a real issue or it can be a minor issue depending on it's location, including which foot and the severity of the crack.
The toughest thing right now is how much training he has to miss as opposed to the actual injury. Again depending on where it is located you can train in a bar shoe and do just fine. A lot of times the biggest problem is an abcess developing underneath where the patch is located. Proper drainage of the area is critical and sometimes that takes some time, sometimes not.

Secondly, the horse's "value" to IEAH is set already. It can not go up or down because they have already have sold the breeding rights. I dont understand why people dont seem to get that. His stud fee is also pretty much set because it is based more on the exposure the farm has as opposed to what the horse does on the track from now on. If he were to win the Belmont, travers, and BC Classic they may be able to get a little more but if he gets beat in the Belmont they will still be looking for 100k. There may be a clause that the farm pays less if the horse gets beat but there may also be a clause that says the farm pays less if the horse doesnt compete in the Belmont as well.
You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.

justindew 05-25-2008 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strategic Mission
You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.
AP Indy?

Fusaichi Pegasus?

pgardn 05-25-2008 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajungator26
Northern Dancer sure didn't pass on his small size ...

I'm still not convinced about what can be passed along and what can't be. Northern Dancer can be seen in the pedigrees of close to 75% of racing thoroughbreds today. Seems pretty hit or miss to me, but I'm not a genetics expert.
A horse that has an anatomical issue
that is tied closely to cells constantly
in action producing new cells is not good.

And its like having a bad fingernail at the quick.
His hoof regenerates with fault lines, basically put.
The likelyhood of this being genetic is higher
simply because its not something far removed
from the genes.

Eye color is clearly genetic. It is a basic anatomical
developmental pigmentation issue. I think you would
agree that coat color is more closely
genetically linked than speed and endurance.
Quarter cracks have a much better chance of
being genetic for the same reason, just not as
closely linked as coat color.

Anyways. I just think that the value that was
placed on the horse is yet another illustration
of the frantic win thoroughbred market.

And Northern Dance is far removed. But when
this kind of thing shows up... And with all the care
taken when Dutrow took over. Insanity. But if
you got the bucks, you might get a big maiden
win in or maybe you get to the Derby with quarter
cracks.

King Glorious 05-25-2008 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justindew
AP Indy?

Fusaichi Pegasus?
AP Indy raced throughout the rest of the year and won the BC Classic at the end of it. FuPeg also raced through the end of the year, finishing in the BC Classic.

Cajungator26 05-25-2008 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strategic Mission
You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.
What makes you so certain that people want to breed to a Mineshaft? Mineshaft has hardly been considered a success at stud so far.

Coach Pants 05-25-2008 10:27 AM
This thread is going to be fantastic.

justindew 05-25-2008 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
AP Indy raced throughout the rest of the year and won the BC Classic at the end of it. FuPeg also raced through the end of the year, finishing in the BC Classic.
Yeah, I probably should have read all the posts. My bad.

Carry on.

Strategic Mission 05-25-2008 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajungator26
What makes you so certain that people want to breed to a Mineshaft? Mineshaft has hardly been considered a success at stud so far.
Mineshaft was #12 on the second crop list and has put two horses into the TC series this year.

Casino Drive has a pretty flawless pedigree with a mother that has produced 2 or maybe 3 consecutive belmont winners. He would have to turn out to be a great horse himself, but nobody would look at his pedigree and question it.

Cannon Shell 05-25-2008 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajungator26
Thanks ... I was seriously asking because I didn't know. How often do you see quarter cracks in thoroughbreds nowadays, Chuck? Would you say it's more common or is Big Brown in the minority of the breed for having these sorts of hoof problems?
Quarter cracks mostly are due to conformation and the horse not striking the ground evenly. A horse with weak feet would be even more prone to get them which seems to be the case with BB. I dont think we see them any more or less in the last 20 or so years. We do have much better ways to deal with them though. I dont think it or feet has anything to do with him running down in the Preakness. That is probably also confirmational, he does seem to have pasterns that are a touch long.

Cannon Shell 05-25-2008 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strategic Mission
You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.
Thanks Mr. Tesio

Cannon Shell 05-25-2008 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajungator26
What makes you so certain that people want to breed to a Mineshaft? Mineshaft has hardly been considered a success at stud so far.
Mineshaft also had bad feet, btw.

hoovesupsideyourhead 05-25-2008 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strategic Mission
You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.
id take bb over a hard spun baby

Danzig 05-25-2008 10:35 AM
so, he didn't run down due to quarter cracks, but his conformation issues are the probable cause for both the cracks and the running down...thanks for answering.

Cannon Shell 05-25-2008 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
so, he didn't run down due to quarter cracks, but his conformation issues are the probable cause for both the cracks and the running down...thanks for answering.
conformation is the cause for most of the negative things in race horses

Coach Pants 05-25-2008 10:43 AM
Danzig is hating on BB like I am with Denis of Cork.

cowgirlintexas 05-25-2008 10:45 AM
In other Belmont news:

Trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. will meet with the media on Sunday at 11 a.m. (EDT) in Barn 2 to discuss Big Brown's bid to become the 12th Triple Crown winner in the Belmont.


Anyone heard anything yet?

Danzig 05-25-2008 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants
Danzig is hating on BB like I am with Denis of Cork.
not quite there yet man. i know how much you hate de...oh wait, i know even seeing the name ramps up your blood pressure...i know you detest he who shall not be named.

Danzig 05-25-2008 10:46 AM
so, what's the limit on starters in the belmont?

pgardn 05-25-2008 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
conformation is the cause for most of the negative things in race horses
I have been told that bad conformation magnifies weaknesses
that are already there... yes or no?


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